My AP football poll: LSU’s at the top, Ohio State’s No. 8
Revised/scaled-down top-25 post because really, how much more is there to say about teams that haven’t played in weeks?
So I’ll explain my top-10 and then just list the full ballot.
*** I moved Louisiana State to No. 1 for two reasons:
Another quality win (over Tennessee), and the placement of other teams in the rankings.
I believe Georgia and Virginia Tech deserve to be in the top-five based on results. But you can’t have LSU behind either: The Tigers have a (big) head-to-head win over VaTech, and they beat the team that beat Georgia.
LSU won the SEC title by beating Tennessee, and Tennessee won the SEC East by hammering Georgia, so how can you justify having the Dawgs over the Tigers?
You can’t.
*** I also believed Oklahoma deserved a spot at/near the top of the rankings — partly because the Sooners beat Mizzou handily on a neutral field in the Big 12 title game, but also because the Sooners beat Mizzou, an 11-win team, twice; beat Texas and Texas A&M; and because one of their two losses was basically without Sam Bradford.
I took the same approach as the NCAA selection committee, which evaluates teams based on how they performed during the season with the lineup they’ll have in the tournament.
Oklahoma only lost one game with Bradford healthy, and he’ll be healthy for the Fiesta Bowl. (Oregon, on the other hand, lost three games with Dennis Dixon and won’t have Dixon for the postseason.)
So that was a consideration, but not the consideration, in putting Oklahoma near the top of my ballot. How many other teams have two victories over 11-win teams?
When I stacked the Sooners against the Tigers, I went with LSU based on the number of quality wins.
*** Then came Georgia and Virginia Tech, and then USC.
I think the Trojans are the best team going right now — if there were a playoff, they’d win it, and they might win it handily.
But as I wrote last week, USC does not have the quality wins to warrant being atop the poll, and it has an ugly, ugly loss (Stanford).
*** Then came Mizzou, which has two losses to Oklahoma but also a win over Kansas (11 wins), Illinois (9 wins) and Texas Tech (8 wins).
I wasn’t going to ding the Tigers too hard for the Big 12 title game loss — although had they been more competitive, I might have kept them in the top-five.
*** Then came Florida, which has three losses (to No. 2 LSU, No. 4 Geogia and No. 22 Auburn — a lot of teams would have three losses with that schedule).
*** Then came Ohio State, which is No. 1 in both polls and No. 1 in the BCS standings but has no business being in the national championship game.
Yes, the Buckeyes only lost once, while other BCS contenders were stumbling two and three times.
But I think that’s a function of OSU’s non-conference schedule (awful) and its conference (mediocre).
To play for the title, in my opinion, your best win cannot be Wisconsin.
(The No. 18 Badgers, who don’t have anything approaching a quality road win, are preposterously overrated.)
*** Then came West Virginia, which I probably should have hit harder for that awful home loss to Pitt, except I couldn’t find anyone else more deserving of the No. 9 spot based on season-long results.
Here’s the full ballot.
1. LSU
Where I had ‘em last week: 7
Current AP rank: 2
2. Oklahoma
Where I had ‘em last week: 6
Current AP rank: 3
3. Georgia
Where I had ‘em last week: 2
Current AP rank: 4
4. Virginia Tech
Where I had ‘em last week: 4
Current AP rank: 5
5. USC
Where I had ‘em last week: 5
Current AP rank: 6
6. Missouri
Where I had ‘em last week: 1
Current AP rank: 7
7. Florida
Where I had ‘em last week: 8
Current AP rank: 9
8. Ohio State
Where I had ‘em last week: 11
Current AP rank: 1
9. West Virginia
Where I had ‘em last week: 3
Current AP rank: 11
10. Boston College
Where I had ‘em last week: 9
Current AP rank: 14
11. Tennessee
Where I had ‘em last week: 10
Current AP rank: 16
12. Arizona State
Where I had ‘em last week: 14
Current AP rank: 12
13. Cincinnati
Where I had ‘em last week: 12
Current AP rank: 20
14. Clemson
Where I had ‘em last week: 13
Current AP rank: 15
15. Auburn
Where I had ‘em last week: 15
Current AP rank: 22
16. Illinois
Where I had ‘em last week: 16
Current AP rank: 13
17. Kansas
Where I had ‘em last week: 17
Current AP rank: 8
18. Texas Tech
Where I had ‘em last week: 19
Current AP rank: NR
19. Oregon State
Where I had ‘em last week: NR
Current AP rank: NR
20. Hawaii
Where I had ‘em last week: 20
Current AP rank: 10
21. USF
Where I had ‘em last week: 21
Current AP rank: 23
22. Arkansas
Where I had ‘em last week: 22
Current AP rank: 25
23. Virginia
Where I had ‘em last week: 23
Current AP rank: 21
24. Texas
Where I had ‘em last week: 24
Current AP rank: 17
25. BYU
Where I had ‘em last week: 25
Current AP rank: 19
great job - total travesty that the big 10 gets 2 teams in the bcs once again. the east coast/midwest bias knows no end, unfortunately.
Well, we (the Pac-10) have a statement to make then during the bowl games…it has been so often lately…and we continue to stub our toes…can we win them all this year (against some not very good competition)? I dunno?
Hawaii at number 20? I think we need to put this in perspective. I read somewhere that hawaii TRIED to get harder out-of-conference teams to play them, but that nobody was willing to come to hawaii because trips were expensive (it works both ways — its expensive for them to travel, too). Still, I hate that the bcs is so hypothetical. Whether or not they didn’t play hard teams, we can’t guess whether they would match up against a high-caliber team.
I’m a trojan fan until I die. I’m a firm believer in pete carroll, trojan football, and the PAC-10. I love that we’re going to the rose bowl, but it’s also crazy how many teams lost in our conference for that to happen. We had to skip over Cal, Oregon, and ASU, all of whom somehow managed to trip over themselves. I wish we played georgia, but i’ll take what we can get. I’d love a matchup with the LSU team that gets so much hype, so many chances (come on! they were able to jump into the top 2 3 times!).
I can’t wait for the rose bowl and the sugar bowl. Fight ON!
Too bad you forgot to take into account that LSU lost to Kentucky (finished unranked) and Arkansas (finished unranked). You voted by the hype not by the facts.
David wrote: “Too bad you forgot to take into account that LSU lost to Kentucky (finished unranked) and Arkansas (finished unranked). You voted by the hype not by the facts.”
To bad, David, you forgot to take into account that LSU beat more CURRENTLY ranked teams than any other team has (including Oklahoma). You commented on your ignorance, not by the facts.
Too bad LSU couldn’t even beat the best team in it’s own conference.
I think you are about right! Ohio State is over rated. I might move up Florida, and pull back Georgia a little. Cincinnati has no business being in the top 15. Illinois may be a little better than some think, too.
So who was the best team in the conference?
Cmil wrote: “Too bad LSU couldn’t even beat the best team in it’s own conference.”
Too bad LSU beat the team that destroyed Georgia, and did it WITHOUT their quarterback or star defensive tackle.
Jon:
You said:’I took the same approach as the NCAA selection committee, which evaluates teams based on how they performed during the season with the lineup they’ll have in the tournament”. That being the case, USC lost to Stanford when Booty broke his hand and played without him at Oregon. Using the same logic you just applied to placing Oklahoma 2nd, USC should be tied for 2nd.
Actually, as a Trojan fan, I have no complaints with the bowl game we are playing in. The opponent should have been Georgia, but I understand the Rose Bowl traditions.
Watch out next year for the Men of Troy. Fight On.
Big Ten bias? Perhaps, but it is AGAINST the conference not the other way around.
I’ve said it before: if these soft SEC teams had to play in the cold, rain and “smashmouth” that is the two plus months of Big Ten football, they would barely be walking at this point.
And one more thing…last year, Big Ten 2 SEC 1.
Buck Eye wrote: “if these soft SEC teams had to play in the cold, rain and “smashmouth” that is the two plus months of Big Ten football, they would barely be walking at this point.”
if the soft Big 10 teams would play anywhere near as many ranked teams as are on the schedules of LSU and Florida, they’re the ones that would barely be walking. lol - just count how many ranked teams Ohio State had on their schedule this year. Pitiful! LSU played 7 who were ranked at the time, and 4 who are currently ranked. Sorry, but as Florida demonstrated last year, OSU doesn’t belong on the same field.
Please Buck Eye I’m sorry but that logic of yours is brutally weak. First of all the weather didn’t even turn bad until mid-late October. Personally I don’t think any team in the Pac-10 or SEC would have trouble beating Youngstown St. or Akron or Kent St. or Minnesota or Wisconsin, etc. in 20 feet of snow. Believe me the Big 10 getting 2 BCS teams (1 of which is an NC berth) is definitely a bias towards the conference not against. But based on the illogical and completely irrational and down right vicious and heavily biased postings by Ohio St fans on this site in the past few weeks, I wouldn’t expect you guys to get it. Go ahead and let the onslaught of name calling begin…Don’t care…What I do care about is the complete joke of a system that has Ohio St. in the title game.
As an ACC fan (virginia), our motto is “wait until basketball season.” The ACC is a weak sister in football. The hated Hokies are playing Kansas. If the Hokies are truly a top 5 team, the match up should be against Oklahoma. Kansas and Tech, a match up of the over rated ? Tech lost to LSU 48-7. Virginia plays Texas Tech inn the Gator. Big advantage Texas Tech. For the Wahoos, it might be a long day but basketball season is here.
Coaches should not be able to determine the teams in the championship game. Check the the final ballots and decide for yourself.
Hahahaha. It must kill all you OSU haters to see your opinions being treated like used condoms.
Jon - You are a moron. OSU’s Strength of Schedule is better than USCs. USC’s best “win” is a loss to Oregon. And their worst loss is to a team that got beat by Notre Dame, LOL. But you can’t let facts come in the way of your Pac-10 homerism, can you - Mister?
Wilner,
Leaving Wisconsin off the top 25 just shows how stupid you really are, or are the rest of the participants that had them in the top 25 really stupid? As a Badger I choose you.
Mike,
I agree with you. Jon is a Pac-10 homer who cannot stand the fact that the rest of the country plays better football. For all his BS about the Big-Ten, if he gets his head out of his rear end, he can see that his conference has historically been a one-team, no-defense mediocre league. And despite that USC finds ways to lose to the likes of Stanford and UCLA (last year).
Wisconsin has traditionally done well in bowls, especially against the “mighty” SEC teams. I hope you guys beat up on Tenn this year and finish in the top-10.
badgers overrated? same old thing from outside media who don’t have a clue. badgers had many injuries throughout the year that hurt them badly. as the past couple of years in a bowl game, they will beat a sec team and nobody will say a thing. that’s fine, fun to look back and see who eats crow again.
Wilner,
If the badgers beat your #11 tennessee and defeat the SEC championship runner up for a third straight year will you give up your right to vote in these polls? It would be the right thing to do.
You crack me up with your bias. The BCS is based on the sports writers and the coachs voting as well as a computer system that uses objective criteria. It is not a perfect system but then again neither is any system. Even a bowl system will have complainers because temas have bad days and you cannot include everyone in the playoffs.
The Buckeyes did not push anyone out. A lot of teams pushed themselves out since they lost a game or two. The Buckeyes have been off for two weeks longer than other teams but they do not have a buy weeks which in and of itself is unfair to them since they potentially have to play with injured players on the sidelines. I would love to see a Big 10 Championship game but then again there is one every year and that is the Michigan-Ohio State game.
The Buckeyes are now in the Championship game three of the last six years. That says volumes about the Buckeyes. They only have two seniors on the starting team so they will be there again next year. They also have a great recruiting class coming in and if they get Pryor (which looks likely) then they will be there a lot more in the next 4 plus years. Get used to it.
By the way the Buckeyes have something to prove. They will be under dogs but they will prove many of you nay sayers wrong
There are a lot of people down on Ohio state right now, and I suppose I can’t blame them, given last year’s national title result. I am definitely in favor of a playoff system, but since we are stuck with the current system, let me make a couple logical arguments: OSU won their conference, had only one loss, beat three top 25 teams, and lost to (at the time)an under rated Illinois team. OSU brings statistcally the best defense in the country into the tile game. This team is very similar to the 2002 National Championship team. It’s not fair to judge them by things they can’t control like the conference they play in, or last year’s overrated team. I guarntee one thing: this year’s team is tired of all the negative press, and eager to prove they are better than their detractors give them credit for. They are playing an LSU team who has trouble stopping big, fast running backs, and traditionally perform better as the under dog. I look for a good game and an OSU upset win. But it wont matter, people will then find some other reason to discredit the Buckeyes, probably with another argument that’s beyond the team’s control, like a “flawed” system. DEFENSE wins championships! Go Bucks!
Guys
People like Jon know that they are accountable to no one. That is why they vote based on “facts” from an alternate reality. The Big Ten has more top notch competition than the Pac-10 with OSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn State and now Illinois. The Pac-10 is USC and a bunch of no defense Junior College teams, some of which lose to Notre Dame!
USC beats two teams with winning records, OSU beat 5.
The Pac-10 is USC and nothing else.
By the way, wilner apparently hasn’t learned much in his 17 years covering college football.Oklahoma looked much better than LSU did in their respective championship games. If any 2 loss team should be no. 1, it is the Sooners, followed by a USC team that’s playing very well right now. LSU was NOT impressive in their win against Tennessee. And how do you rank a Va Tech team that was destroyed by LSU no. 4. OSU as no. 8? I wont even get into how biased that is.
Yeah its too funny. USC gets credit for squeaking by a pathetic Artizona team at home and a lucky 3-point win at Washington but OSU gets no credit for traveling halfway across the country to beat up on Washington by two scores.
Wilner - you are a laughing stock!
USC’s non-conference schedule.
1) Idaho, arguably the worst D1 program in the nation … worse than maybe 40 DIAA programs.
2) Notre Dame, ahahhahah
3) Nebraska, the team that gives up 60 points regularly each week.
Kent State would be 3-0 against that line-up.
Wilner should consider quitting before this gets too easy.
Jon,
I’ll never get the 3 minutes back that I wasted reading your whiney tirade. The system is the way that it is. The majority of your top 10 all played this past Saturday so I guess you’re one of the writers who believes the team’s playing the best are the teams you just finished watching a couple of minutes ago. I don’t understand this Big 10 bias argument. EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE raves about how weak the Big 10 is. As a Big 10 fan I’ll even admit the conference maybe even on the decline, with the exception of Ohio State, Illinois and Wisconsin. Yet, they went 2-1 against the SEC in bowls last year and we’re 4-0 against Notre Dame this season while the Pac 10 only managed 1-2. LOL
Keep up the Ohio State bashing all of you, the Buckeyes were reading too much of their own press clipping last year and got manhandled by Florida. This year everyone is saying they don’t deserve to be there. I will definitely take a 2-1 in National Championship games in the last 6 years. GO BUCKS!
This Almost exactly what I would have place the teams at, with the only exception of Florida being #7. I believe that Florida should still be ranked in the top 25 but not in the top ten. Tough schedule or not, they still lost 3 times. I am a Georgia bulldog fan, and I didn’t have a problem with LSU jumping the Dawgs. I had a problem with a team (Ohio State) that only has to play 11 games in the regular season, stay idle for 2 weeks, with one loss, and keep moving up. My wish is that the media, and the poll voters read this, and see what a mess they’ve made of the BCS system. College football is becoming more and more political every year. Something needs to be done.
GO DAWGS!
Going undefeated is magical. Look, who all the so call big teams lost to. So strenght of schedule is overated. There is only one undefeated team in the nation Hawaii and thats awesome. Also you mention that in a playoff USC would prevail. So why did you not rate them #1. Plus the SEC is overrated and the Pac 10 is way underated.
Badgers not in top 25, but you have Tennessee at 11 ? Huh ?
what a joke man !
There are Buckeye fans ragging on USC for the nonconference schedule. Are you kidding me? Ohio State scheduled 3 games against scrubs and only 1 against a BCS conference team. USC scheduled 1 scrub and 2 of the premier programs in college football. It’s not our fault they both decided to take a nosedive this season. You Ohio State fans should be ever thankful that you made it to the national championship game because that’s the only way you were going to avoid getting embarrassed in Pasadena on New Year’s Day. Tune in and watch us stomp all over the team that beat you. It will be a nice preview of what you will see next September.
Jon, Jon, Jon,
Calm down there buddy. It’s ok. No matter what you can ignore the whole football community. Hey, why don’t you just declare your teams mythical champs? Or, maybe to stop the incessant whining, just declare the SEC, champ the NC, and everybody else can just play for amusement. Your formula and Miles formula works fine; two losses in the good conferences is better than no losses elsewhere. Except of course, on planet Earth.
TrojanBrett,
I have one word for you - Stanford.
Next!
Trojan Brett,
You’re right, we’ll see you next year, until then we’re playing for all the marbles and you’re stuck speaking in cliches like; wait until next year. You keep fighting on, underachieving and not living up to your recruiting classes and talent level. YOU should be thankful Dennis Dixon got hurt or you wouldn’t even be playing in the Rose Bowl.
Isn’t Wilner the same guy who a year ago said Wisconsin doesn’t even belong on the same football field as Auburn? REMINDER: Wisconsin defeated then 7th-ranked Auburn 24-10.
This is possibly the worst poll submission in all the AP.
You want to know why almost everyone chose Ohio State as the #1 team? Because they are the best team. The coaches said it (even SEC and PAC-10 coaches), the media (except some biased morons) says it.
SEC fans want it both ways. They want to say their conference is so great because of the number of teams in the top 25. But then they want to discount that their conference champion got beat by 2 teams that are currently not in the top 25 (4 or more losses each). Furthermore they want to discount the fact that Ohio State has been near the top of the polls all season and is currently #1. So the same people that are giving you fuel for your claims at conference superiority think that Ohio State is better than all of them.
Big Ten was 2-1 in bowls vs. the SEC last year and I suspect will do even better this year. But SEC fans will have excuses even then. At least the BCS keeps getting it right by putting Ohio State in the title game.
Trojan Brett,
You have to be kidding me…I realize ND is a traditional matchup and you all play every year (and that is commendable and unavoidable) but the fact it that this year ND is pathetic and the arguments about scheduling Nebraska and ND carry no weight. I agree Ohio State’s schedule is awful, but we handily beat Washington, a team your beloved Trojans squeeked by. I also believe this is the 1st year OSU has ever played a 1-AA team…other schools do it nearly every year. The fact is that the Pac10 is full of weak teams that play no one thus their rankings went up b/c everyone ahead of them lost (See AZ State)…same with the Big East(see UConn). The Big10 bias does exist, but it is a negative one. We beat each other up in conference and we are a conference of weak teams…the SEC does that same thing and it is because they are SOOOOO good! I am not buying it! We’ll see how the bowls end up and if the Big 10 wins the NC and Rose Bowl, you all will dissapear and not be held accountable for your rantings.
Willy,
you are a hack…..you’re lucky that there’s no oversite committee whose job it is to oversee the pool of voters and weed out those that are consistently so far outside the normal statistical deviation, that their data is totaly useless(sort of like throwing out the high and low ratings from the computers, and using only 4 of the 6 computer averages), else you’d have been gone a long time ago!
If I get nothing else for Christmas but the Big Ten going 3 - 0 vs the SEC and the Illini beating the Prophylactics in their home city, I will be a very happy man!
Geaux Bucks…beat the SEC, the Tiggers and their “I’ll always be a Michigan man, always bleed blue and I’ll do whatever I can to help them beat that Ohio team” head coach!!!!!
All you Ohio Staters need to just settle down. Until you beat an SEC team in a bowl you don’t really havea leg to stand on. Good luck this year… Being an OU person I can’t help but look back to the MizzOU Illinois game. MizzOU beat Ill at their place. Ill beat OSU at their place. OU beat MizzOU twice… Don’t worry, I’m not saying OU deserves to be there, we lost our shot at CU and Tech.
The Ohio State guy here in the office could speak for a week after last year’s game. Will this year be different?? Hmm… Will it be the 50 days without a game again? Time will tell.
…And yes, the BCS is what it is and was what it was and has been what it has been. It’s atrocious but it’s sure hard to care when your team is in the NC. I’m a pretty fair person so obviously I didn’t agree that we were sent after loosing the Big 12 a few years ago. Nebraska, the year they couldn’t win their division…please. Lets just all agree this thing stinks and always has. Not to blame Ohio State though, is what it is, just don’t wallow in the stupidity of the BCS and try to justify where you are.
Amen, brother. See http://www.pollspeak.com for an unbiased evaluation of Wilner’s votes. He’s entitiled to his opinions, as wrongheaded as they are.
Three loss Florida is gaining a lot of mileage out of the NC win last year. Ding WVU for a loss to Pitt, but not USC for the loss to Stanford?
How would you rank the 6 BCS conferences? How can you rip OSU for going 7-1 in a “mediocre” conference but not hold VaTech to the same standard (yes, the ACC is softer than Beamer’s belly)
OSUfan wrote:
“Oklahoma looked much better than LSU did in their respective championship games. If any 2 loss team should be no. 1, it is the Sooners, followed by a USC team that’s playing very well right now. LSU was NOT impressive in their win against Tennessee.”
Uh, LSU was missing their starting quarterback and their star defensive tackle (Dorsey). Just count how many teams this year went down as soon as their quarterback got injured: USC, Oregon, West Virginia … and yes, the Packers. And LSU? They won. That shows that they have a more balanced team.
JIM KLUGE Says:
December 5th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Isn’t Wilner the same guy who a year ago said Wisconsin doesn’t even belong on the same football field as Auburn? REMINDER: Wisconsin defeated then 7th-ranked Auburn 24-10–
Actually that was 2 years ago. Last year he suggested that Arkansas would CRUSH t he Badgers. Either he is totally full of it (my vote !) or the SEC sucks– Which is it?
BGS, sorry but the Big 10’s record against the SEC sucks.
Big 10 vs. SEC:
20-30 (.400)
Big 10 vs. SEC all-time w/l record in bowl games
Illinois 0-3
12-29-1982 Liberty Alabama 15-21
12-29-1988 All-American Florida 10-14
01-01-2002 Sugar LSU 34-47
Indiana 1-1
01-02-1988 Peach Tennessee 22-27
12-29-1990 Peach Auburn 23-27
Iowa 3-2
12-31-1982 Peach Tennessee 28-22
12-30-1983 Gator Florida 6-14
01-01-2004 Outback Florida 37-17
01-01-2005 Capital One LSU 30-25
01-02-2006 Outback Florida 24-31
Michigan 6-3
01-02-1984 Sugar Auburn 7-9
01-02-1988 Hall of Fame Alabama 28-24
01-01-1991 Gator Mississippi 25-3
01-01-1997 Outback Alabama 14-17
01-01-1999 Citrus Arkansas 45-31
01-01-2000 Orange Alabama 35-34
01-01-2001 Citrus Auburn 31-28
01-01-2002 Citrus Tennessee 17-45
01-01-2003 Outback Florida 38-30
Michigan State 1-2
01-01-1989 Gator Georgia 27-34
12-29-1995 Independence LSU 26-45
01-01-2000 Citrus Florida 37-34
Minnesota 2-1
12-29-1986 Liberty Tennessee 14-21
12-30-2002 Music City Arkansas 29-14
12-31-2004 Music City Alabama 20-16
Northwestern 0-1
01-01-1997 Citrus Tennessee 28-48
Ohio St. 0-8
01-02-1978 Sugar Alabama 6-35
01-01-1990 Hall of Fame Auburn 14-31
01-01-1993 Citrus Georgia 14-21
01-02-1995 Citrus Alabama 17-24
01-01-1996 Citrus Tennessee 14-20
01-01-2001 Outback South Carolina 7-24
01-01-2002 Outback South Carolina 28-31
01-08-2007 BCS Championship Florida 14-41
Penn St. 4-2 (Big 10 member since 1993)
01-01-1994 Citrus Tennessee 31-13
01-01-1996 Outback Auburn 43-14
01-01-1998 Citrus Florida 6-21
01-01-1999 Outback Kentucky 26-14
01-01-2003 Capital One Auburn 9-13
01-01-2007 Outback Tennessee 20-10
Purdue 1-2
12-31-1979 Bluebonnet Tennessee 27-22
01-01-2000 Outback Georgia 25-28
01-01-2004 Capital One Georgia 27-34
Wisconson 2-5
12-13-1981 Garden State Tennessee 21-28
12-29-1984 Hall of Fame Kentucky 19-20
01-01-1998 Outback Georgia 6-33
12-31-2003 Music City Auburn 14-28
01-01-2005 Outback Georgia 21-24
01-02-2006 Capital One Auburn 24-10
01-01-2007 Capital One Arkansas 17-14
Gripe all you want. Ohio State is in the national championship game. What will you complaign about after we kick LSU’s behind. The real mistake is putting a miserable two loss team in the title game.
Anthony,
As much as I dispise the point of your argument I appreciate the objective evidence you provided. That idiot that wrote this article could learn something from you.
If fans would just mobilize and cause constant pressure on universities to have a playoff system, you wouldn’t have this problem. Ohio State is always going to be in a position to play for a national title. Unfortunately, your stuck with Ohio State. All we’ll know this year is that Ohio State is either better or worse than L.S.U., who cares about the other major conference champions.
I also really hope we never get 20 feet of snow. We got 28 inches a few years ago and that shut us down for a couple days.
Donnie,
Get your facts straight. Ohio St. played TWELVE regular season games.
Jon Wilmer carries a purse. And in this purse are pieces of paper. And on the pieces of paper are letters. And when Mr. Wilner empties his purse beside his make-up stand, the letters spell — IM AN IDIOT.
Go Bucks.
No bias of opinion here…
Ohio State 10 and Wisconsin unranked? Y’all must be crazy.
USC number 5, based on what? They’re OOC schedule is worse than any team ranked in the top 10. Idaho.. and two big name teams that sucked!! this year. What with Nebraska giving up basketball scores and 3-9 ND. You serious. Plus they lost to Stanford, that alone should keep out of the 10 ten. But wait there’s more, they only beat two teams with a winning record. Their signature win is over Arizona State - who by the way - beat only 1 team with a winning record. And at the end of the day, how good was the Pac 10 really? Cal tanked, Oregon proved to be no more than a 1 man team (Dixon should the Heisman based on how Oregon just completely collapsed) and speaking of ND their 3 wins were against Duke and two Pac 10 teams.
Oklahoma lost to two unranked teams that remain unranked. And the way the defense played against TTech, Bradford’s injury is a lame excuse. And by the Way Oklahoma’s OOC schedule is no better than Ohio State’s - the U. was just as awful this year as UW!
Ga. got blown out by the divisional champ and lost again to an unranked team. Ohio State is a conference champion and conference champion trumps a divisional runner-up.
Va. Tech, yeah they played LSU and got blown up. Why give them credit for that. The ACC is still more well known for Bball than Fball.
Florida - 3 losses is 3 losses,period. shouldn’t even be in the top 10.
Missouri played in a pathetic division of their conference, which you must agree with since you have Kansas so low and lost twice to Oklahoma the 2nd in a blow-out, which is worse than the 1st time around because the revenge factor was in effect and they laid an egg.
And even mighty LSU has two losses against unranked teams at the time and could’ve easily had 2 to 3 more no thanks to their coach.
Ohio State had its flaws (only one actually) but so does every other team. Fact is, they’re the only team from one the Six BCS conferences ( and their are tough games and landmines for all teams within their own conference) with one loss and deserve to be in the title game.
I would like to make a prediction now, Hawaii beats Georgia by 10 points and instead of saying “wow I guess Hawaii really is that good” “Experts” will be saying “See? I told you that Georgia was overated!” I bet a few of the ignorant bloggers I have seen here will be saying the same thing as well. Please dont post and tell me what an Uneducated Football Fan I am. Just wait for the New Year and the Sugar Bowl. After the Game you can tell me How much you admire my foresight.
SEC v. BIG 10: There’s no need to debate who’s best. The Big Ten is sending 3 of its top teams south to play 3 of the SEC’s top teams. Clearly the SEC has home field advantage here, but regardless, when it’s all over, one of the two conferences is going to come out on top - then we’ll know who’s best (at least for this year).
so i like the fact that you have the Tigers ranked over the Dawgs simply because they beat a team that beat them. when Georgia beat Kentucky and they beat LSU. Your reason doesn’t really make that much sense. I think you need to rethink your top 25, starting with who is number 1.
Anthony,
Regarding all-time record of Big Ten vs SEC, who cares what the all time record is….did you know that Michigan has more wins vs OSU all-time! Does that mean that Michigan is currently the more dominant program? of course not. Look at the relavent past.. Last year the Big ten was 3 - 1 vs the SEC (2 -1 in bowl game), 5-3 vs SEC (bowl games) in last 3 yrs, 8 - 6 (bowl games) in last 5 yrs!
Where does all of this conference domination talk come from?
anthony,
so what is your excuse in giving up 50 points to unranked arkansas and being ran over by McFadden? Please don’t try to justify it. I wont try to justify the Buckeye’s loss to Illinois. keep in mind OSU has a running back very similar to McFadden. I’ll be real interested how your team fares against us with everyone healthy and no excuses.
Jon,
You’re laughable rankings this year show that you either A. Have no college football knowledge whatsoever; or B. You carry deep biases. Either way, I’m sure that you never played sports when you were younger. If you did then you would either A. Know more about football; or B. Have the sportsmanship to realize how unfair your biases are.
You should be embarassed by the way you vote and try to justify your rankings. You apply one reasoning to discount some teams, but you don’t apply that reasoning to the teams you “like.”
I would rather you be honest in your reasoning, no matter how screwed up it may be, than to lie about it.
Yeah everyone has their favorite team, or conference, and it effects how people approach all this BSC madness, but to get to the point.
There will never be two conferences that are equal any more then any two teams are in any given year.
For example I keep hearing how superior the SEC is to other conferences. (especial Big Ten, since its the coming match up)
If the SEC is the toughest conference and no one is their match, then what do you want, the SEC Conference title game to be the national championship. Since no one else is worthy of playing with them? Wake up! your dreaming.
If you have a great conference then you will have a great chance of winning against anyone, period, but it does not make you invincible. Tenn. lost to Cal. and they were SEC East champs and almost SEC Conference champs, and Cal is not even ranked anymore with a 6-6 record. So the second best team lost to a mediocre team from PAC 10.
My point is we can argue all day long on who is the best but until there is a playoff its all talk. You can complain about who gets to go, or who doesn’t but its all decided by opinion.
If they would get rid of the non-conference games,(making time for playoff) everyone play their conference, win your conference you get into the playoffs. This would make regular season conference play exciting and important. Then when the playoff starts you have the best from each conference playing each other. Until you get to a final two, and a true national champion. If your from a weaker conference but you are a superior team you could win it all. If you are from a stronger conference and maybe drop one along the way you could still win out. The winner of conference champ playoff, will have proven their worth, by beating the best teams out there, every year.
you are an idiot ohio state has dominated every team they’ve played except for their loss. uga, va tech,ok have all been blown out this year. if anything the bias is pro sec. i am tired of idiots like you recycleing what they hear on espn and acting like they’ve got evidence to back it up. you’ll see come the 7th of january. and you’ll see next year when osu goes to usc to start the season.
David,
I don’t think anyone disagrees with your post, but the point of all this discussion centers around the fact that at this point in time we only have the BCS. And like it or not, even with a plus one format or some other form of a four team playoff, you’ll still need the BCS to pick those four teams.(if your going to have a playoff will their be home field advantages for the most deserving teams rather than have all games played in Southeast or West?)
Fans of a particular team or conference can have their opinions about whose team is better (back it up with as much fact as possible), which conference is better (back it up with as much fact as possible), thats what makes us FANatics, etc…..but to have biased writers, such as Wilner, included in voting on who is deserving of what, in the BCS process (I understand that the AP is not considered by the BCS, but you get my drift)is ludicrous. For example, the misperception that the SEC is so much better than the Big Ten (see post about head to head bowl matchup record last year or within last 5 years) is contrived solely by a biased media.
As I stated in a previous post, if media personnel (voters) like Wilner were held accountable for their voting history and judged and possibly removed from such positions based on thier results that are so far outside the norm, this system would have less controversy (wouldn’t totally eliminate it).
Like it or not, I still put more faith(not total faith) in the results of computer polls than I do with humans and believe that the day they changed the formula (the year OU got in after losing B12 Conference game)to reduce the weight of the computers and increase the weight of the humans was a huge, huge mistake.
Anyway, keep up with the spirited debate, but please back up any arguments with fact, something Wilner fails to do on regular basis.
OSUfan wrote: “so what is your excuse in giving up 50 points to unranked arkansas and being ran over by McFadden?”
illegal chop block on Dorsey since Auburn - remember? LSU has given up tons of points ever since.
“Please don’t try to justify it. I wont try to justify the Buckeye’s loss to Illinois.”
Now there was truly no excuse for that.
“keep in mind OSU has a running back very similar to McFadden. I’ll be real interested how your team fares against us with everyone healthy and no excuses”
With everyone healthy and no excuses, prepare for LSU vs. Virginia Tech, part II.
Gary wrote: “Regarding all-time record of Big Ten vs SEC, who cares what the all time record is….did you know that Michigan has more wins vs OSU all-time! Does that mean that Michigan is currently the more dominant program? of course not. Look at the relavent past.. Last year the Big ten was 3 - 1 vs the SEC (2 -1 in bowl game), 5-3 vs SEC (bowl games) in last 3 yrs, 8 - 6 (bowl games) in last 5 yrs!”
I’ll grant you that mediocre teams in any conference aren’t necessarily any better than the mediocre teams in any other, so let’s limit the stats to when the BEST Big-10 teams have played the BEST SEC teams - i.e., when they have been good enough in a given year to get invited to one of the five BCS bowls and faced each other. And if you want recent history, then let’s limit that to all games since the year 2000. Then we have:
01-01-2000 Orange Michigan vs. Alabama 35-34
01-01-2002 Sugar Illinois vs. LSU 34-47
01-08-2007 BCS Championship OSU vs. Florida 14-41
So we have one Big-10 win by a single point, and two SEC wins by 13 and 27 points.
That’s a more accurate picture.
Anthony,
First you document all time record in hopes of proving your point, next you bring out specific games, your running out of garbage to throw out.
SEC fans can’t have your cake and eat it too!
Everyone points to the depth of the SEC conference, saying its so tough to play weak in and weak out(pun intended)and that even the bottom half of the conference is tough. In bowl game, specifically since BCS, you most likely get #2 vs #2, #3 vs #3 (oh yeah…your conference has one of those contrived conference championship games designed to do two things: make money and give 8 teams out of 119 an unfair extra game to improve their poll positions…. and specifically screwed up in SEC where the #2 team in the conference doesn’t always get to play in the game…..last year SEC fans(specifically LSU) claimed Arkansas wasn’t the second best team in SEC, and this year Tennessee wasn’t second best team in SEC…
Your latest post proves one thing, that on those given days, for that game only Michigan was better than Alabama (on basically SEC home field), LSU beat Illinois in a home game and Florida beat my Buckeyes…it proves nothing about conference strength….and specifically the misperception that SEC is so far and away so dominant over Big Ten….please bring facts to base your argument on!
Once just once I’d love to have the SEC bring a team up North (or PAC 10 teams to come East)in late Nov-Jan just to hear them cry!
Anthony,
Some additional flaws in your “facts” when you pointed out three specific games where it was suppose to be the BEST from Big 10 vs BEST from SEC. Problem is in 2000 Best Big 10 team was in Rose and Best SEC was in Sugar, 2002 Best Big 10 again was in Rose, #2 Illinois played the SEC’s best in a home game.
On a lighter note, I believe this SEC chest thumping stems from an inferiority complex dating back 142 years when us damn Yankees kicked the South’s Arses!
I guess all these arguments will be settled on the field starting in late December. I think i’ll let Ohio St. and the Big Ten do the rest of my talking then. the Buckeyes need to redeem themselves, win or lose. The Big Ten STILL holds the upper hand over the SEC in head to head bowl games, given last year’s results, and it will remain so until the SEC can prove otherwise. I fail to see where one conference is so dominant over the other at this point. Anthony, one player(dominant as he is)being injured is a lousy excuse for any defense giving up 50 points.
Gary wrote: “Everyone points to the depth of the SEC conference, saying its so tough to play weak in and weak out(pun intended)and that even the bottom half of the conference is tough. In bowl game, specifically since BCS, you most likely get #2 vs #2, #3 vs #3″
Yes, but not #2 Big-10 vs #2 SEC, and #3 Big-10 vs #3 SEC. For example, take this year. We have the #1 Big-10 vs. the #1 SEC team. But the other two Big-10 vs. SEC matchups are Wisconsin vs. Tennessee in the Outback Bowl, and Florida vs. Michigan in the Capital One Bowl. Now it’s MUCH easier to judge that OSU and LSU are the best in their respective conferences than it is to judge whether Tennessee is on the same level in its conference as Wisconsin is in its, and the same goes for Florida and Michigan. That’s why I limited the stats to only the big bowl games, since THOSE games are most likely to feature teams that are more clearly on an equal level within their respective conferences. Once you get into the smaller bowls, things get much murkier.
And once you limit the stats to only the major bowl games over the past give years (your range), the SEC wins, hands down.
“Your latest post proves one thing, that on those given days, for that game only Michigan was better than Alabama (on basically SEC home field), LSU beat Illinois in a home game and Florida beat my Buckeyes…it proves nothing about conference strength….”
It does for the top levels of each conference.
“and specifically the misperception that SEC is so far and away so dominant over Big Ten….please bring facts to base your argument on!”
um, I can repeat those point differentials for the past 5 years in the major bowl games again in case yo missed them.
Gary wrote: “Some additional flaws in your “facts” when you pointed out three specific games where it was suppose to be the BEST from Big 10 vs BEST from SEC. Problem is in 2000 Best Big 10 team was in Rose and Best SEC was in Sugar,”
By BEST I mean the top levels of each conference, not the absolute top. It’s the mediocre teams of each conference that I agree aren’t any better than any other. So in the 2000 game, although each team wasn’t the absolute top of each conference, the two teams were clearly on a similar level within their respective conferences.
“2002 Best Big 10 again was in Rose, #2 Illinois played the SEC’s best in a home game.”
It showed.
“On a lighter note, I believe this SEC chest thumping stems from an inferiority complex dating back 142 years when us damn Yankees kicked the South’s Arses!”
An inferiority complex is delusionary. Scores aren’t.
OSUfan wrote: “The Big Ten STILL holds the upper hand over the SEC in head to head bowl games, given last year’s results, and it will remain so until the SEC can prove otherwise. I fail to see where one conference is so dominant over the other at this point.”
The top levels of the SEC have dominated the top levels of the Big-10. In MAJOR bowl games over the past five years (i.e., games featuring the top levels of each conference), the Big-10 is 0-2, with loss margins of 13 and 27 points.
What’s the definition of a “major” game - a game that the SEC team wins? LOL.
BTW, General Robert E. Lee is the best one-loss General in the history of warfare, but he fought in the better league.
Anthony,
Last year, was Arkansas the #2 team in the SEC? Accoring to your pathetic Conference championship format they were and they lost to a Big Ten team!
You don’t get to pick and choose which teams fit your argument!
Gary wrote: “Last year, was Arkansas the #2 team in the SEC? Accoring to your pathetic Conference championship format they were and they lost to a Big Ten team!”
Of course Arkansas was not the #2 team in the SEC last year! LSU not only beat Arkansas last season, but ended the regular season with fewer losses. Even Auburn ended the regular season with fewer losses. So Michigan played what was probably the #4 SEC team last year. A much better game would have been Michigan vs. Auburn.
“You don’t get to pick and choose which teams fit your argument!”
not picking and choosing, as I just proved.
JB wrote: “What’s the definition of a “major” game - a game that the SEC team wins? LOL.”
One of the five BCS bowl games. You know, the ones that every team wants to be in? LOL
OSUfan
In the eyes of Anthony and other SEC fans the argument will be settled only if the SEC teams win…..
by the way, I’m obviously a Buckeye fan and Big Ten fan and I do not think that Big Ten’s 8-6 advantage or 5-3 advantage (head to head in Bowls)shows any kind of domination, on the contrary it shows that the two conferences are pretty evenly matched, but it does clearly show that the SEC is not the dominant conference that they believe it is!
Geaux(?) Bucks…beat the SEC, the Tiggers and their “I’ll always be a Michigan man, always bleed blue and I’ll do whatever I can to help them beat that Ohio team” head coach!!!!!
I wrote: “Of course Arkansas was not the #2 team in the SEC last year! LSU not only beat Arkansas last season, but ended the regular season with fewer losses. Even Auburn ended the regular season with fewer losses. So Michigan played what was probably the #4 SEC team last year.”
I meant Wisconsin.
Gary wrote:
“by the way, I’m obviously a Buckeye fan and Big Ten fan and I do not think that Big Ten’s 8-6 advantage or 5-3 advantage (head to head in Bowls)shows any kind of domination, on the contrary it shows that the two conferences are pretty evenly matched, but it does clearly show that the SEC is not the dominant conference that they believe it is!”
Of course you failed yet again to address my proof that in major bowl games (i.e., in which the teams are most likely to be on equal levels within their respective conferences), the SEC is 2-0 against the Big-10 in your 5 year range, by an average margin of 20 points. That’s domination at the top levels of the conference. At lower level bowls, it’s much harder to tell whether you really have the #3 team vs. the #3 team, or even the #3 team vs. the #5 team. Proof: Arkansas last year.
That disproves your position.
Anthony,
Your putting on that old SEC spin again!
Arkansas didn’t play Florida last year in SEC Championship game? They didn’t win their division? They didn’t have the second best conference record next to Florida? Sounds like the SEC #2 to me.
Gary wrote: “Arkansas didn’t play Florida last year in SEC Championship game? They didn’t win their division? They didn’t have the second best conference record next to Florida? Sounds like the SEC #2 to me.”
Answers - yes they played Florida for the championship, yes they won their division, yes they had the second best conference record next to Florida, but no they weren’t the #2 team, just like Tennessee isn’t really the #2 team this year. The SEC championship is good at determining the #1 team, but not the #2 team - I’ll grant you that. The highest bowl berths in the SEC last year went to Florida and LSU. And this year, they go to LSU and Georgia. Yes Tennessee beat Georgia this year early on, but Georgia also beat Florida, who destroyed Tennessee, so it’s a bit deceptive to say that Tennessee is the real #2 this year. Again, that’s why I always look at the major bowls to see even parity between the SEC and the Big-10. This year it’s absolutely clear that LSU it the #1 SEC team, but it’s hardly clear that Tennessee is the real #2 team.
Anthony,
You just stated that you don’t think that Arkansas was #2 last year and you don’t think that Tennessee is #2 this year, but in same breath you also state that the SEC championship game does a good job of determining #1??? How, when in your opinion #1 didn’t play #2?
You see, when you start spinning, the argument typically comes back to bite you in the arse!
Now, using your words not mine, this IS delusional! Which is exactly the point of my posts about the SEC fans thinking!
Geaux(?) Bucks…beat the SEC, the Tiggers and their “I’ll always be a Michigan man, always bleed blue and I’ll do whatever I can to help them beat that Ohio team” head coach!!!!!
Gary wrote: “You just stated that you don’t think that Arkansas was #2 last year and you don’t think that Tennessee is #2 this year, but in same breath you also state that the SEC championship game does a good job of determining #1??? How, when in your opinion #1 didn’t play #2?”
because the #1 SEC team won, as it usually does, both last year and this year. So the conference process usually works in weeding out the #1. But the losing team in the conference championship isn’t always the second best team in the conference.
“You see, when you start spinning, the argument typically comes back to bite you in the arse!”
You see that when you say things like that before I answer, my answer comes back to bite you in the arse. So refrain from pre-judging your victory, since things like this will happen to you again.
Anthony,
Well of course the #1 team usually wins!! They don’t have to play, according to you, the #2 team in the CCG!! You don’t see the flaw (maybe its not a flaw if you came up with the idea) in the SEC championship format?
I have to hand it to the SEC, they contrived this championship game format to increase revenue and provide their best team a 13th game and chance of improving position in the polls….and the scam is succeeding. If I get your explaination, they sacrifice a lower seed team in the Championship game (Arkansas last year, Tennessee this year, and who knows who else in previous years)so a higher rated team in BCS(LSU last year and Georgia this year) doesn’t have to lose to Florida last year or LSU this year, or maybe beat Florida (last year) or LSU (this year)possibly keeping them out of the NCG, thus keep two teams alive for inclusion in the BCS format. All the while, allowing the top team a chance at moving up in the polls in a 13th game…..a game 113 other teams don’t get the same chance at?
You think they would consider using BSC rankings as the tie breaker in deciding which team would represent a division in the the CCG….LSU vs Florida last year and Georgia vs LSU this year, but that would jeopardize the whole scam wouldn’t it? Although I do seem to remember Georgia getting in 2003 based on BCS rating when they were tied.
Nice system!
SEC Cleans Up College Football Awards
Posted Dec 7th 2007
The SEC’s impressive talent was on display at the Home Depot College Football Awards show in Orlando on Thursday night.
4 of the 9 achievement awards went to SEC players. That was easily enough to put the Southeastern Conference in first place; the Pac-10 came in second with two recipients, while the Big 10, Big 12 and ACC trailed at one apiece. Here’s how it breaks down…
Doak Walker Award: given to college football’s best running back.
Winner: Darren McFadden, Arkansas (SEC), for the second consecutive season.
Fred Biletnikoff Award: given to college football’s best receiver.
Winner: Michael Crabtree, Texas Tech (Big 12)
Davey O’Brien Award: given to the nation’s top quarterback.
Winner: Tim Tebow, Florida. (SEC)
Chuck Bednarik Trophy: given to the nation’s best defensive player.
Winner: Dan Connor, LB, Penn State. (Big 10)
Jim Thorpe Award: given to the best defensive back in the country.
Winner: Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona. (Pac 10)
Outland Trophy: given to the nation’s best interior lineman.
Winner: Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU. (SEC)
Lou Groza Award: given to the country’s best kicker.
Winner: Thomas Weber, Arizona State. (Pac 10)
Ray Guy Award: given to the nation’s top punter.
Winner: Durant Brooks, Georgia Tech. (ACC)
Maxwell Award: given to college football’s best all-round player.
Winner: Tim Tebow, Florida. (SEC)
Additionally, 6 SEC players were named to the Walter Camp All-American team and LSU’s Glenn Dorsey won the Lombardi Trophy, given to the country’s best college lineman, earlier this week.
What’s especially exciting is that two of the SEC’s awardees (McFadden and Tebow) are finalists for the Heisman Trophy; chances are excellent that the stiffarm trophy will return to the SEC this year.
Congratulations to the SEC’s finest players, who play for some of college football’s finest teams; and congratulations to recipients from the Big 10, Pac 10, Big 12, and ACC for their achievements as well.
“Once just once I’d love to have the SEC bring a team up North”
I can remember a time when a team from the South, albeit not an SEC team, went up to the Big House to play Michigan. It was Florida State, and Michigan was supposed to run all over the poor little Seminoles. The final score was 51-31, and before the year was out, FSU had lost to SEC champion Florida.
I think the last SEC-Big Ten showdown in cold weather was the 1981 Garden State Bowl, which was won by the SEC. Tennessee 28, Wisconsin 21.
John C wrote:
I think the last SEC-Big Ten showdown in cold weather was the 1981 Garden State Bowl, which was won by the SEC. Tennessee 28, Wisconsin 21.
You think the Garden State Bowl was played in cold weather? Obviously you’ve never been at Lambeau Field in late December!
Anthony, I agree. Congrats to Tebow for his Heisman and to the others for their awards.
SEC, 3 (Tebow McFadden, Dorsey)
PAC 10, 2 (Cason, Weber)
Big 10, 2 (Lauranitis, Connor)
Big 12, 1 (Crabtree)
ACC, 1 (Brooks)
Regarding the Walter Camp All America’s, the SEC actually had 7 players named (1st and 2nd team)
Big East had 5 members
ACC, PAC 10 and SEC had 7 members
Big 12 had 9 members
Big 10 had 13 members
Don’t forget about the ESPN the Magazine Academic All America’s (1st and 2nd team)
ACC, PAC 10 had 2 members
SEC had 3 members
Big East had 4 members
Big 12 had 6 members
Big 10 had 8 members
Anthony,
Here’s more cograts to AP All Americas
Big East, 8 members
SEC, 9 members
ACC, 10 members
Big 12, 14 members
Big 10, 14 members
Are we seeing a pattern here?