Martz In As OC - Now Things Get Interesting…
Wow! I did not see this one coming. I thought that Nolan was interviewing Mike Martz for the Offensive Coordinator Position as a favor for his agent, who also happens to be Martz’s agent. It turns out this was no simple courtesy interview. Mike Nolan has hired Mike Martz as Offensive Coordinator for your San Francisco 49ers. I’m not sure what threw me off most - maybe it was that the 49ers don’t have the personnel for Martz’s spread, receiver-rich, RB-ignoring, and QB-focused offense (where the QB also takes a lot of hits). Or maybe it was Martz’s personality, which would seem to mix with Nolan’s about as well as George W. Bush and Boy George.
Nope - those things weren’t what threw me off. It was that new head honcho Scott McCloughan said clearly and directly that the 49ers were not interested in Martz. So I guess it wasn’t just that McCloughan didn’t seem in charge at the press conference - he really isn’t! Tim K. has a good take on this angle.
I like this hire. Not because I think it will help the 49ers win more games. It certainly might, but I’ve pretty much given up on that. I like this hire because it makes the 49ers a heck of a lot more interesting. The analogy for the 2008 season just went from watching a fender bender between a Nissan Sentra and a Honda Civic to watching a 30-car wreck at 220mph at the Daytona 500.
Just a few of the questions this move raises:
Who’s in charge here - Nolan, McCloughan, Denise York, John York, Jed York, Mike Martz or Bob Lamont (the Mikes’ agent)?
How long before Nolan tries to tell Martz to run more?
How long before Martz tells Nolan to shut up?
How long before Martz tells whoever he thinks is in charge that he should be Head Coach?
How long before Alex Smith, Shaun Hill, Trent Dilfer or whoever is at QB get concussed?
How long before Frank Gore wonders to the press why he isn’t getting the ball more?
How long before the tension between Nolan and McCloughan is palpable (or did that already happen)?
Add those questions and many more to the long list of questions that already existed before this curious hire.
I don’t know if the 49ers will be any better in 2008 than 2007, but they’re sure to be a lot more interesting. What do you think?
right on it Erik. Only time will tell, but it’s got to make you wonder…so many questions this hiring brings to bear
Mad Martz for president! niners should score more than 1 TD per game now.
This is the work of Nolan’s agent. He is trying to rebuild the image of ol’ coach caveman.
National media and football guys that don’t really pay attention to the Niners (nearly everybody) will buy this Martz hire, hook line and sinker. Nolan wants to be painted as some sort of innovator that is not afraid to take chances and loves a good offense and is not so insecure as to hire a super bowl caliber OC and former HC.
True Niner fans all know Nolan has little man’s syndrome.
Unfortunately, while I hope this works out, the chances of explosions and ultimately a big combustible erruption are extremely high.
I gotta admit, as much as I hate the York group and their henchmen, I will be curious to watch in a morbid sort of way. We all know the end result will be ugly, while we curse the TV and all things associated with these York-Niners.
Still I refuse to buy or spend any $$$.
When the Saints hired Sean Payton as head coach before the ‘06 season, they totally revamped their roster (2/3rds of the players were first-year Saints to fit the coach’s offensive philosophy. N.O. went from perennial dregs to division champs & the NFC title game.
If Martz’s hiring means the end of A. Smith as the starter & a new corps of receivers & tight ends, sans Davis & Battle, then the 49ers should be more watchable than they’ve been since the Mariucci years.
The problem with more watchable offense under Nolan is…it will translate to 6-10 or 7-9 or even with some breaks, get lucky and 8-8.
The end result is we get two more years of Nolan. Minimum.
I miss explosive offense as much as the next guy but do we really think this is a long term solution or is it more of a band-aid on a broken model.
Thoughts???
Martz is a good pick here, offense under him have been excellent. We keep complaining that the niners aren’t using the talent they have…maybe now they will.
Those of you worried that Martz is too pass oriented, just remeber that under Martz, the Rams had the 5th best running game in the league, with nearly a 5 yard per carry average. Martz believes in both the pass and the run. His passing game was just so prolific (with the Rams) that that’s what he’s remembered for.
I think this is a good move. But time will tell.
Why the rush to hire Martz? Why not atleast talk to Cam Cameron or a couple more candidates. This is such an odd fit it’s incredible Nolan would rush into this. Then again, maybe it’s not so incredible. Offensively, the niners have no QB or receivers, but they do have a fairly decent running game. So what do they do? They go out and hire a guy who hates the run and is pass happy. Does this move make sense to anyone? Seems like just one more bad personnel decision to throw on top of the heap that already includes Hostler and Billy Davis.
This is a good and bad hire. Good that we finally get a competent OC with experience. Bad in that we get Nolan another 2 years if this team finishes 7-9 next year. At least the contract for Martz is a two year deal that coincides with Nolan’s deal. Just be excited that the team has a better chance of improving next year. I don’t think we’ll see a 5-11 season. No matter what Martz can do, this team still sucks under Alex Smith.
Martz and Nolan have one thing in common. They make at least one totally brain whacked 4th down call a game. Looks like this tradition will continue for another year.
I never thought Martz as hating the running game. He’s had superb running teams. He just loves to pass.
I agree with Rathman on all points in #5 but would be more than willing to be proved wrong.
I like the move and I agree with Jim because Mike Martz can use the run and pass. Just take a look at how he used Marshall Faulk in St. Louis. Gore can run and catch just like Faulk. This is going to be an explosive offense. Martz’s system is similar to Norv Turner’s and just like turner martz knows how to use recievers and QB’s talents’. Lelie may get a lot of playing time this year.
“I miss explosive offense as much as the next guy but do we really think this is a long term solution or is it more of a band-aid on a broken model.”
More like scotch tape on the model to hold it together just long enough for the M80 you put in the cockpit to go off.
This move makes total sense in that what move has Nolan made that is logical? This smells more like one of nolan’s half brained idea of proving he really is not conservative.
I love this move! I agree with Jim and Austin. The 49ers will be explosive again! Let Nolan focus on the defense, while Martz turns the offense into a force to be reckonned with.
i thought nolan did something semi intelligent for a change but i was wrong! He hires a OC who had almost as many qb sacks as we did, but their offense is better. Common sense the WR and Ol coaches go, as people were complaining about their players unpreparedness, lack of discipline and intelligence ( cant pick up a blitz in 3 years?)even when they won the first 2 games. But no, rocket scientist fires the other coaches and keeps these two. I want to hear what Martz says to Nolan when his 3rd qb is pounded into goo. Sheer Madness!!!
I’m pretty disappointed in this move. Martz had success under Norv Turner in Washington, and under Dick Vermeil in St. Louis. But since then, he’s been pretty much of a train wreck. The Rams began to plummet when he took over as head coach, and then he alienated pretty much everyone in the organization. In Detroit he did not have the personnel to run his scheme but insisted on doing so anyway, and again, alienated people in the process. The combination of Mike Nolan, Mike Martz, and the 49er offensive personnel (no explosive receivers and a grind-it-out, tackle-breaking running back who doesn’t catch the ball terribly well) seems downright toxic. I think Cam Cameron, a proven coordinator schooled in the system Norv Turner left behind, would have been a much better choice. And I agree with Tim K., Erik and others who view this as an assertion of will by the Yorks. (Jed York, perhaps?) An assertion of will that was probably contary to the wishes of both Nolan and McLoughan.
A couple of forseeable scenarios.
Most of us think it’s likely that Martz and Nolan’s egos will eventually clash and although the offense will improve(how could it not?)we will probably end up with a bigger circus than we just attended in 2007. I say, if this is what happens… then at least Martz’ offense will expose all the offensive players strengths and weaknesses and when the new regime begins in 2009 they will know what they have to work with.
The other scenario is that this actually works! Seems pretty unlikely but it could happen if all these stars align.
#1 Nolan actually stays out of Martz way.
#2 Martz actually uses Gore like he did Faulk.
#3 O-line help is acquired and those who stay improve.
Whether this works or not… this is the perfect job for Martz. The offense can’t get any worse. There is some talent and Martz will figure out how to use it. If the offense doesn’t make dramatic improvements then Martz just says “Look at what I had to work with?” If he can make the “BIG IF” happen, which is make Smith a good QB, even just Kitna like, then he’ll be a genius again…probably even a bigger genius than before. What scares me in the case that this experiment works is that it could just work for one year. Could Nolan possibly stay out of the way if he made it past next season? Would Martz be happy as OC when he probably will feel the he NOT Nolan made the turn around happen?
A few numbers to look at for those who think Martz won’t use Gore.
Last season Gore rushed 260 times(16.25 per game) and had 53 receptions(3.31 per game) equaling 313 touches(19.56 per game).
In 6 seasons under Martz, Faulk averaged 230 rushes per season(14.37 per game) and had 71 rec. per season(4.43 per game) equaling 301 touches per season(18.81 per game).
Using Gore like he did Faulk could determine how successful Martz is with the Niners. Hopefully he’s smart enough to realize it.
Not a fan of Alex Smith or Mike Martz. That said, Smith has to be damn happy as Martz is the one person capable of creating a spread offense where Smith may actually be comfortable (feel like his days with Urban Meyer at Utah) and successful. If anyone else had come come in at the coordinator position, Hill would have been the favorite as he produced results, had the better QB rating, and was the better fit for the position.
Martz watched Norv make a name for himself by managing to get something out of Smith. Martz wants to be a head coach and will give Smith every opportunity to win the job. Talk about a dream situation for Smith . . . Martz just may be crazy enough to make this work.
I couldn’t stand them beating the Niners, but the “Greatest Show on Turf” was awesome for a few years. I wonder if he needs certain types of players, or if defensive coaches have caught on, because he hasn’t had the same success lately. But I have to admit, I am looking forward to this. At least Nolan and/or York has realized that great offense is required around here.
I’m with Vince. This hire makes McLoughan look pretty powerless given his defiance last week regarding Martz’s candidacy. From a personnel standpoint, to paraphrase Rick Pittino “I don’t see Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, and Kurt Warner walking through that door”. I envision more production (after all, there couldn’t possibly be less) but not many more wins, and a toxic office/locker room to boot.
Vince, the ESPN report said that Nolan had to talk ownership into the hire, FWIW…
Curious how much they paid Martz? He was scheduled to make 2million if he was retained in Detroit. You have to think that he makes at least as much as Nolan?
Cool! The team of Mad Mike and Bad Mike. But I’m excited about the team next season. To quote KeezarMike on Matt Maicco’s blog: “You know, part of being a sports fan is getting excited about your team, having some hope, having some FUN!”
Fun — a word that I’d completely forgotten vis-a-vis Niners since last year’s win at Seattle. We have overanalyzed the team, ownership and management to a state of depression.
We forget that this is an entertainment, and supposed to be fun.
It will be difficult for the Niners to come out of NFL purgatory under the Yorks, and Nolan is not HC material. Bur while Mad MIke tries to resurrect his next HC job prospects and Bad Mike struggles to keep his job, we might, just might see entertaining football in September. Forget the past and the future, let’s live for the moment. Cam wouldn’t have come here, and Chan’s no fun.
Here’s hoping that Gore will have 75 catches next season if he stays healthy. Mike has promised to build the offense around him. Lelie may have been on to something when he left the facilities for the off season in a cheerful mood a few days ago.
Mood Indigo, good blog. Agree completely its been depressing around here and even on this blog - for good reason. But I like the way you put it in perspective: its supposed to be fun. At least with Martz, there’s a good chance fun will happen, win or lose. And we do have a good defense, and reason to have some hope about winning.
At first I agreed with everyone else that said the Niners personel doesn’t matchup well with a Martz system, but after sleeping on it I may have changed my mind. Is Martz the pass with reckless abandon type he has been cast as or is he an OC that recognized where the talent was on his last two offenses. I mean does anybody really think that Detroit would have been that much better running the ball had Martz not been there. The talent there was in the receiving corp. (see their last 12 first round picks) so why wouldn’t he air it out and ignore a running game that featured TJ (I couldn’t beat out Warrick Dunn in ATL) Duckett.
This is another erratic and poorly thought out decision by Coach Nolan. Martz and Turner both come from the same coaching tree. However, Turner leans toward power running and ball control while Martz just tries to outscore the other side. In the long run, offenses that control the ball are those that tend to lead to championships. Let us not forget that Walsh teams typically controlled the ball in addition to running up the score, only with a pass-first mentality.
Remember that Cincinnati game. The Niners had several good pass/run drives in the first half but then they called fewer passes and let Cincy back in the game. What happens with game management when Nolan demands some runs when he gets a lead? Also, as bad as Nolan’s sideline decisions have been does anybody recall bizarre thought processes that gave this man the Mad Martz moniker? We now have the two most eccentric decision makers in the league running our team.
I think the incompatible philosophies will be entertaining but a total disaster as the season wears on. I hope I am wrong.
Looks like the Niners are getting ready for the #1 Pick of the 2009 NFL Draft…
I like the move. Martz is a confident leader that the niners missed this year. I really like it if Nolan stays true to his word and lets Martz’s run the offense. If Nolan allows Martz to run the offense he should spend all his time on defense. I think they will need the help if Singletary leaves. This could be a good move for the team. Two coaches one leading the offense and one on defense. Kinda like the 85 Bears.
This young team needs good confident coaches and Nolan and Martz are that.
Bob
Amen Fumblin’ Frank! I’m interested in them getting Lance Briggs/and or Bernard Berrian to go with that top 5 2009 pick for the next HC and hopefully new owner. The garbage that goes on around here this season with these incompetent people is of no interest to me. I just hope and pray that Martz doesn’t equal too many more wins that would save Nolan’s job. I won’t spend a dime of my money supporting the Yorks/Nolan, but will pay attention out of some morbid curiosity while enjoying real football from other teams.
We’re only in trouble if Alex Smith goes out and guarantees 10 wins next year.
I agree with what seems to be the initial impression…this is an interesting hire if nothing else. It has the potential to work really well, or be a complete train wreck, and only time will tell. Who knows, maybe this was a secretly savvy move on the part of the yorks. Ok, just kidding, but still….
What a difference a week makes! A week ago I was convinced that 2008 was DOA. Now I am excited. I think this is a great hire. I think everybody who is predicting problems is being overly pessimistic.
First thing to keep in mind is that Frank Gore is not a big guy. I think Frank’s career may not last three more years if he is asked to carry the ball 25-30 times a game. However, if you get the Ball in Frank’s hand as a pass receiver 10-15 times a game, he can get his 25 to 30 touches with just 10-15 carries. This is exactly how Martz used Faulk in St. Louis.
The other thing Martz’s offense needs is an accurate QB. During the Rams Super Bowl run Warner showed phenominal accuracy. On this score I am not sure if Alex Smith can be Martz’s guy. Shaun Hill may be better suited. Keep in mind that Martz was able to flourish in St. Louis with a statue for a QB (Warner). Hill and Smith are both far more mobile then warner.
Obviously it helps to have a dominant tackle like Orlando Pace. That is the one missing piece. Staley is OK but he is no Pace. Snyder is a journyman at best. Harris and Jennings are pretty much wastes of humanity. Seems to me the Niners need to look at Free Agency and Draft to try and get a couple of stud tackles (easier said then done!).
We also need a fast wide receiver (ala Torrey Holt). We have a bunch of posession receivers on this team. We need someone to stretch the field. Berrian may be just the ticket.
I am not worried overmuch about Martz’s record with Detroit. Kitna never impressed me as anything other than a mediocre journeyman, and Kevin Jones has turned outto be an injury prone woos. If Hill shows that his play at the end of ‘07 was no fluke, and with Gore getting his 25 touches without getting pounded, the offense should be vastly improved.
Can’t wait of September.
I don’t know how I feel about Martz’s hiring but I do know this; I will be watching the 49er’s next year after swearing I wasn’t going to waste another second on them at the end of this last dismal season.
Now all we need are some competent receivers that can get some separation and don’t drop passes, and oh yes a QB that can hit the open man and not roll out under pressure and throw the ball out of bounds.
Like him or hate him, Martz did turn the Rams from door mats to an explosive offensive unit. What remains to be seen is will the front office give him the tools (receivers and O line)to get the job done. I don’t think Gore will be unhappy or under utliized in this scheme. I think he will get far more touches just given the fact that the offense will not have as many three and outs. Just cutting that stat in half will almost guarantee a doubling of the time of possession stat which was very lopsided this year. Gore will be thrown to far more and still have more carries per game. He could be another Roger Craig with 1,000 yards rushing and receiving, provided the QB issue improves.
As for Martz’s problems with the Lions, he was pretty close this year to turning that awful organization around. A couple breaks going the other way and that team makes the playoffs, something that can not be said about the niners this year.
As for how much power Nolan still has, the true test will be the draft and personnel moves during the off season. It seems pretty clear the team needs some help on the O line and at least one marquee receiver. I think the D will be ok with Willis developing into an even bigger force. Maybe add a pass rusher and who knows…
I also admit to not being too happy with this selection. But as an O-coordinator he brings instant credibility to the locker room, at least a lot more then Hostler did. No matter his past issues, all he has to do is wear his SB ring the first time out, and you have to figure our O guys will pay attention. Plus, maybe he brings in higher quality offensive free agents then we may have gotten otherwise, and he will help our positional players put up better numbers then they did last year. Of course when your offense was statistically worst in the league this season, that’s not hard to do! How to gawd I still wish Nolan was gone though!! WAAAAAAH!! (Sorry, I’ll get over it….)
Question for all.
What if anything has happened with the OL coach? Does not matter who the OC is, if the OL plays bad. There poor play most of the season must be addressed (IE hire a new OL coach). It all starts up front!
While waiting for responses to 33. A really scary thought on how this might work. To date Martz’s offenses have depended on the OL protecting the QB with minimal TE and RB help. OK, we could not protect the QB last season with TE AND RB help. Week 12 we sign Vinnie Testeverde out of retirement as the 7th QB to start a game!
The Detroit Free Press has a great, detailed article on how the Martz offense operates, as explained by the players. It’ll be interesting to see how well it can be implemented here, and just how long it will take before it all meshes:
http://www.freepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080103/SPORTS01/301030016/1049
As a side note, it was interesting to read how enthusiastic Martz was about the personnel in Detroit when he got there, vs. what he said about them in yesterday’s conference call. I absolutely hope this isn’t a repeat performance…
Ron - It appears as though the OL Coach, George Warhop, is staying. Nolan says he has not been let go and Martz said he “certainly hoped” Warhop (and WR Coach Sullivan) would be part of his staff.
9erOldTimer- Great points as always, but I think the discussion has moved over to my post yesterday on this hring which raises some of the same points you did. You may want to repost some of your comments over there.
Erik, thanks for the heads up. Repeating a couple of my previous posts below.
January 8th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Upon thinking a bit further, this could be either a very good thing or a very bad thing.
Somehow, between Nolan’s ultraconservatism and Martz’s ultracreativism, if they’re able to find a happy medium, this could turn out well, never mind a lot of work will have to be done on the personnel side (the 49ers roster doesn’t exactly jive with a Mike Martz offense).
On the other hand, it’s like sticking one hand into a tub of boiling water and the other hand into a tub of freezing water, and hoping that you can enjoy the average temperature. If it unravels, it will be ugly.
Again, at the end of the day, it’s entertainment. Just look at it as another dimension to the entertainment!
January 8th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
OK, let’s see what the addition of Mike Martz could do for the 2008 season. Let’s give the 49ers the benefit of the doubt for the moment, and assume, until proven otherwise, that Kool-aid concocted from the oil and water that Nolan and Martz represent will somehow taste better than it sounds.
With that, here’s my most optimistic scenario:
Home:
Seahawks – win (previously, loss)
Cardinals – win
Rams – win
Patriots – loss
Jets – win
Eagles – win (previously, loss)
Redskins – win (previously, loss)
Detriot – win
Away:
Seahawks – loss
Cardinals – loss
Rams – win (previously, loss)
Cowboys – loss
Giants – loss
Bills – win
Dolphins – win
New Orleans – loss
Total: 10 wins.
Previously, my absolute best case was 7 wins, with 4-5 wins as more likely.
If this Martz-Nolan marriage works out, we could be looking at 10, may be even 11 wins in the most optimistic case.
Of course, the pessimistic case could be as bad as you can imagine…
If anything, it’ll be interesting. Gore should prosper; a (I don’t know which) quarterback will improve; the team will go nowhere and do strange things on 4th down and kick a lot of onside kicks and still go nowhere; Nolan will still prove inept at everything and try to spin it as a positive; Willis will somehow improve; and the one bit of competence on the sidelines will be Mad Martz. Crazy days in Ninerland.
BTW, I listened to Mike Nolan’s interview by Ralph Barbierie on KNBR last evening. The KNBR team asked some blunt and pointed questions, but this being the political season, got nice non-answers from Nolan.
One thing that stuck in mind as rather odd was the length of time Nolan took explaining / defending Scot McCloughan’s prior comment that the team was not very interested in Mike Martz.
Nolan could have provided a very simple and brief answer with something like “Yes, Scot did say that, because at that time, we didn’t think we could get Mike Martz, so we weren’t seriously interested in pursuing him.”
Instead, Nolan went on a long monologue for what felt like 3-4 minutes, going to great lengths in reinterpreting and translating Scot McCloughan’s comment, and what he really meant, and explaining Scot’s thought process.
I don’t know if anyone else heard this show, but wow, Nolan laid it on thick, and some more.
That forced me to pause and ask myself what really happened.
- Who really called the shots on Martz?
- Who all were involved in the interview process?
- Who was for and against the decision?
- Who negotiated Martz’s deal?
- What exactly was Martz’s deal?
- Did any of the Yorks (Jed) have any input?
After Nolan’s “explanations”, somehow, this feels a little too neat and too simple to be a case of “Nolan hired an offensive coordinator”.
These questions are germane insofar as they help define how exactly Mike Martz, Scot McCloughan, and Mike Nolan are positioned within the 49ers organization, and how critical decisions will be made in the weeks and months ahead.
Your optimistic scenario requires that we have good quarterbacking (and that he stay healthy!), whether from Hill or a vastly improved Smith. Also that Gore stays healthy. And our receivers elevate their play. And that our O-line vastly improves its pass blocking.
Not impossible, but it may require two or three major personnel upgrades to make it work. And healthy relationships in the locker room. Some pixie dust couldn’t hurt either.
Realistically I’m thinking 6-10 is more likely IF Mad Mike and Bad Mike can coexist.
If they can’t its Chernobyl and 4-12 or even 2-14.
…forgot to add my ‘most optimistic scenario’:
49ers go something like 3 - 13, fire Nolan, hire Holmgren or someone as talented as he is, and get one of the top 3 picks in the following year’s draft. Worst case: we go 8 - 8 or even 9 - 7 and think it’s improvement and stay the course. Disaster.
Hey OldTimer (sorry, this is a repeat post as Vince brought up a similar point), the original ESPN report that announced Martz’s hiring stated that Nolan had to convince ownership of the hire. Given that and McCloughan’s comments on KNBR the evening of the “Nolan Stays” press conference where he said that Martz wasn’t a candidate, I’d say it was Nolan’s decision. Also, he did say at that same press conference that he was the decision maker when it came to the coaching staff and that Scot only had the “trigger” on player personnel.
Again, as with anything with the Niners these days, take everything with a grain of salt, and probably a drink or four…
Thanks Erik. Martz just the PC words there. It amazes me how football experts lose sight of the fact you have to win the war in the trenches to win the game. Wait my bad….current 49ers braintrust….football experts…….NOT.
Martz will work just fine in my opinion. If this offense can at least score three touchdowns a game they will be in good shape because the defense will be good enough to hold the lead. I think Alex Smith could thrive under Martz and I already cannot wait till next year and see these guys in action. There is really nothing to lose with the hiring of Martz. If it does not work we will be in the same place that we would have been in anyway so what the heck. GO NINERS!!
I applaud Mike Martz’s hiring as a high-powered, down-the-field offensive coordinator, it was a good move. We all must keep in mind that it is the personnel that must be all in the right places, have the speed, all teams have to be able to manage the ball and move the ball down the field to get chances at the red zone. We need to utilize the best wide receivers we have which I believe to be Jackson, Lelie, and (Jason) Hill. Hill has the speed, Jackson has the route-running prowess, Lelie has the yardage gaining ability.
But they need to get a star wide receiver to make Martz’s offense work: For example, Chad Johnson. Make a run for him! The top receivers in the NFL are the speediest and the tallest, except in Joey Galloway’s case, he is not as tall but boy, he is fast.
Alex needs to have a true quarterback mentor and Martz is right, the one who makes the most completions will be the starting quarterback. I rather see Shaun Hill be the starting quarterback, he can deliver. Dilfer needs to retire and be the 49ers quarterback coach, because he encouraged the less inexperienced and rookie quarterbacks as a 2nd stringer, and he does better with input than actually practicing what he teaches on the field. As we get older, the speed of the NFL game is still faster than college football.
We need to revamp the offensive line to protect the QB, so Martz can make his offense work, because with the Lions, they gave up 55 sacks. That can’t happen here.
dude chill out at least they are making some moves hopefully in 2 yrs we can have our 6th SB
This move is kinda interesting to me.
Im figurung Martz knows Nolan’s days are numbered and what if..Just what if Martz does just enough to say, improve the offense to respectability but maybe not enough to conjure up more wins..could that mean BYE BYE Noland as HC and hello Martz?
Im not a conspiracy theorist but maybe Mad Martz will try and snake the job out from under Nolan..
Although I dont like Nolan, I definitely dont like Martz either. But it sure as heck would not suprise to use my theory.
Any comments? Like Colorado are you smokin crack? or dude ur sooo right? LOL
This is the perfect hire. It essentially relegates Nolan to co-defensive coordinator and Mike Martz will run the offense with NO interference from Nolan.
The second Nolan disagrees, Martz will make it clear that the only thing keeping Nolan’s career as a HC afloat is the illusion that he has anything to do with the offense. Maybe for spite, he’ll pretend to be sick for a game just to show anyone who wonders who’s really calling the shots.
Way to emasculate the one we hate! Let’s all toast to Nolan’s balls on a stick!
This does make Nolan not a lame duck, but a dead duck walking.
The roster will start to re-shape to fit Martz’s offense this year, but that will be a 2-year process. This year will be 8-8 and Nolan will get fired and Martz will replace him going into next year.
I like that. As long as they also rebuild the offensive line. Detroit’s offensive line sucked, Kitna’s pretty much a statue, and Kevin Jones is the world’s most fragile RB. That situation wasn’t really indicative of Martz’s abilities. His SB ring is, and I think he’s learned how not to be so abrasive (though he should be abrasive to Nolan, especially with the cameras on).
Brilliant points! I completely agree with the last 2 posts. This is the year-long roast of Nolan before we kick him to the curb. Meanwhile, an exciting offense will be installed.
As fans, we can help by chanting “SHUT UP NOLAN” every time we see Nolan anywhere near Martz while the offense is on the field. That might earn us the NFL’s 12th man of the year award.
RB ignoring? All of you paper hacks are fools when it comes to understanding football. Tell Marshall Faulk how much Martz ignored him. Martz runs a lot of short passes that are almost like running plays… DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THIS? My god… don’t get too caught up in the stats. Martz offenses put POINTS on the board.
Re. #42 - Lou, I read that report too, although I don’t quite recall if there was anything there to suggest Nolan did a big sell job on the ownership to bring on Martz.
If I recall correctly, I think the term “convince” was used rather casually in that article, and not to suggest any uphill battle was won.
I just read Ira Miller’s blog, which asks the same question: exactly who pulled the “trigger” on this? (pun intended). That will set up the ground rules for who has got what authority.
Right now, it’s a lovefest on public display. But let’s see how critical decisions get made in the coming weeks (what players are kept / sent packing, free agency, draft, etc.)
Re. #40 - Grumpy Guy, re. my optimistic scenario, here’s my rationale:
If Martz or even Tollner had been the OC throughout the season, I think the 49ers could have won three more games which they narrowly lost: Baltimore (7-9), @Atlanta (16-20), and St. Louis (9-13). That would have put them at 8-8 for the season.
Dumping Trent Dilfer is surely worth at least two more wins.
Add to that the following:
- a healthy Alex Smith (or a Shaun Hill);
- Joe Staley at LT;
- OL upgrades to improve the pass protection;
- the addition of at least one good WR;
- better utilization of Jason Hill, Ashley Lelie, et al;
- possible upgrade at FB; and
- a second RB to complement Gore for a 1-2 punch
Surely, that’s worth an additional win or two.
So even without rebuilding the 49ers in the image of the glory days of the “greatest show on turf”, it should be possible to squeeze out ~10 wins, give or take one.
Of course, that’s the optimistic case
The pessimistic case, of course, could be as bad as your Chernobyl scenario
People familiar with interpersonal behavioral theories know that humans behave very differently under normal and stressful conditions.
A common pattern is for an individual with a certain “normal” behavioral style to keep getting pushed deeper and deeper into his/her backup behavior styles, until under extreme stress, the person completely flips into a behavior that is the exact opposite of his/her “normal” behavior.
Nolan, for all his ultra conservatism, at times showed during the 2007 season a tendency to become recklessly aggressive, and it often came at very inconvenient times.
No matter how much Nolan tries to explain his decision to go for it on 4th down in the Cincinnati game, the bottom line is, it was a reckless decision on his part at a time when he was not thinking straight.
After 10 losses in 11 games and with a promising season in a shambles, he was finally winning a game, for the first time having outplayed an opponent, never mind that the Bengals mailed it in. Under any normal circumstance, Nolan would have been the first guy in the line to take a FG and go up by two scores. Instead, he went for it, and that bad decision nearly cost him the game.
Anybody who listened to Nolan on KNBR after that ridiculous win in OT over Arizona after Rackers missed a chip shot FG, would have recognized the stress Nolan must have been under - he practically barked out to his detractors to “shut their traps” after that terrible win.
I’m no shrink, but I think these were sign of Nolan’s behavior under extreme stress. Nolan will never admit it, but I think there were times he simply didn’t have his head screwed on right.
It is very possible that Nolan hired Martz out of the same sense of desperation bordering on recklessness. Otherwise, this makes no sense at all.
We don’t really know what happened behind closed doors for two long days before the press conference last week. Nolan’s explanation of taking two days to “review every game of the season” is complete nonsense.
We don’t know what was actually said. But we can guess what the Yorks really think of Nolan. Surely, if they thought Nolan was their long term solution, they would have extended Nolan’s contract by two years, at least on paper, with adequate escape clauses. The point is, they did not.
Clearly, once the Yorks decided they’d give Nolan one last chance, they did everything they could to prop him up, so Nolan would not be perceived as a cripple. This is understandable.
Even as Nolan was reeling off his “awesome leadership” lines at the press conference, he must have been reeling on the inside. That would explain his very aggressive posture in trying to clearly establish that he was still the guy in charge.
But how did Nolan really feel inside? Surely, he saw the 2008 schedule, and recognized that things were going to get even nastier. With the NFC East and New England on the schedule, surely Nolan saw the 2008 season had shrunk to a universe of 11 remaining games even before the season started.
Then there was also the issue of what OC in his right mind would come work for Nolan, a lame duck coach without a proven QB on the team and no receivers.
Again, I’m no psychologist, but I think Nolan saw the handwriting on the wall, and it spelled “D-I-S-A-S-T-E-R”. I think he flipped, panicked, and went for broke.
If I’m not mistaken, the Mike Martz hiring is entirely Nolan’s doing. First I thought it might be Jed York asserting himself, or something more than what met the eye. But I’m beginning to think this was all Nolan, and nobody but Nolan.
I believe Nolan stared at despair, and gambled. He is not thinking as a long term coach. He couldn’t care less if Martz got one or both QBs beaten to pulp. It doesn’t matter how often Gore carries the ball. Nolan is beyond all the details.
This is Nolan’s reckless survival bid, to go for broke on 4th down. Appropriately, it’s also his fourth, and final year.
Just a couple days ago I suggested hiring Pete Carroll of USC as the new head coach of the 49ers, and today I just read that the Atlanta Falcons want to interview him for the head coaching vacancy.
Did the Atlanta Falcons read my comment? They probably knew my guts are right.
Consider me the new NFL predicting guru! My services are available to all that want me to predict in who will be hired, and how the teams will do in ‘08.
Martz is the first name that came to my mind when they said they were looking for oc. Hooorayyyy!!!!!!!!!!
Purdy’s article that Nolan/Martz is Eddie Albert/Zsa Zsa Gabor, and Santa Clara is Green Acres, is right. I agree with Oldtimer that this appears to be a desperate decision on Nolan/Albert’s part, completely out of character. Nolan couldn’t handle the stress of the City and things were hopeless, so he moved to the country. But it was the right decision. Nolan probably realized he has no clue about offense, and next year would be a repeat of this one, if he handled things in a conventional way. So we’ll have the most bizzare, split personalty franchise in NFL history, but it might work. The team will be so unpredictable that no opposing coach could possibly prepare for it. Genius.
I think the total paucity of RB talent on Detroit’s roster speaks for itself. Martz was equipped with two 1st round WR talents along with the underrated Mike Furrey. Of course he would favour the pass over the run.
What about the Patriots? Kitna is no Brady, and the Lions don’t have a Moss, but if anything the strategies are remarkably similar. When your passing game is demonstratively better than your running game, where will you focus more of your game plan?
My point? He isn’t a ‘RB killer’ as people make him out to be. If he has the horses, he’ll run. He has them here. Now, as for the passing game…that’s a total crapshoot at this point, since this may very well be a 2 or 3 year project that he may not be around to finish. Curious hire from that standpoint.
Eric
An excellent choice–but–but– Nolan must merely be a spectator when the 49ers on on offense–Also the draft has to tilt to offensive players–wide receivers-a tackle– a big strong running back to complement Gore and be able to catch–Defense– A pass rusher–
John Nicholson
Post #52: Hey OldTimer, when Denise York first came out saying they would look into hiring a GM, quickly followed by the reports that McCloughan may be promoted, my first reaction was that this would be a disaster unless they got rid of Nolan. Not because McCloughan would be bad. I actually think a lot of him (last offseason, I posted that the best thing about the Nolan hire, IMO, was that he brought in McCloughan). The disaster part had to do with taking a subordinate and putting them in a superior position to the one who hired him.
Who wouldn’t have a problem with this? I would have a problem with it if I was the guy who has been subordinated, and I’d also have a problem with it if I was the guy who was promoted. In my take, McCloughan was pretty uncomfortable in that initial press conference and seemed to bend over backwards to not place himself above Nolan.
I thought this move introduces an extraordinarily bad dynamic into the top level of their football-related decision-making process. Cripple that process, and what you get is a higher likelihood of bad decisions being made. And I think there’s every possiblity that this will prove true.
Again, I’d like to be more optimistic, but the dynamics of this structure are just that bad in my opinion. BTW, my gal is a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst. I’m going to have to get her take on Nolan!
Re. #60 - Lou, perhaps you should have your gal do a Miss Marple analysis!
As for “I would have a problem with it if I was the guy who has been subordinated, and I’d also have a problem with it if I was the guy who was promoted.”, Nolan should be used to this by now!
Norv Turner was his boss at Washington, and his subordinate here. He tried to recruit, or at least interview Brian Billick, his former boss from Baltimore. So Nolan has no excuses for pouting over Scot McCloughan now being his boss. If it was OK for the goose, then why not the gander?
Given his ego, I’m sure Nolan is deeply resenting this, but hey, why was it OK when it was the other way around?
I agree, Scot McCloughan tried his best to contort and shrink his body to remain within Nolan’s shadow at the press conference. But who knows what he really thinks. The guy has a mild stutter and he comes across as rather shy, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t wear brass knuckles inside his velvet glove.
We just don’t know McCloughan well enough, so it’s too early to tell if he’s a quiet man with a big stick, or just a quiet man.
The comments I’m picking up from other sites is that Mike Martz was not a popular choice with either Scot or with the Yorks. Which is why I think it was a solo decision by Nolan.
Keep in mind, right now, Nolan can push pretty much any agenda he wants in the 49ers organization. The Yorks might hate every move Nolan makes, but they have no option but to grin and bear it. Firing Nolan would make York look an even bigger idiot, if that were possible.
That is what the Yorks get for leaving the organizational structure weak, and so vaguely defining Scot McCloughan’s role.
So, for now, Nolan is King.
Hopefully those of us who think that Martz will not forget about Gore are right.
The Niners will do all they can to get better pieces(o-line & receivers) for Martz scheme but to think they’ll line up with a whole new line and pro bowl pass catchers to start the season is false hope. And I would not want to see them pass on chances to upgrade defensively and concentrate solely on offense(I like some of the whispers about chasing Lance Briggs, and d-linemen).
O-line should be the main focus… if no big name receivers are landed then Martz has to show just what a genius he is. He’ll have to use Gore like he did Faulk, find creative ways to get Vernon Davis involved, and get more out of the receivers he does have. Yeah, in the past he’s had the likes of Bruce, Holt, Roy Williams, and his rookie this past season but RICKY PROEHL? and AZ HAKIM?… what have they done without Martz? I think Martz can indeed get more out of the likes of Lelie, Jackson and the others.
I think V.D. will be a real wild card for Martz. He has never had such an athletic tight end before so we are yet to see the kinds of formations and schemes he’ll use to get V.D. the ball. Look for Davis to line up all over the place. How many teams run screen passes to their tight ends? This might be something to look for with the Niners next season.
Being a HUGE Niner Fan(as I assume we all are)… I hope this works out cause I can’t take the losing much longer. But I’m VERY afraid that this could turn out well enough to save Nolan’s job and at the same time land Martz an HC job elsewhere.
Then what?
I just don’t think HC opportunities will come seeking Martz that easily, even if Martz does well as the OC. If the 49ers have a winning season in 2008, my guess is both Nolan and Martz will be invited to return for th 2009 season, and anything beyond that would be a function of how the 2009 season turns out.
OldTimer… your probably right.
I just think he might get some looks if he does the impossible and totally turns A. Smith around. Alex has the physical skills, but hasn’t shown presence. Martz may help… he preaches timing and quick decisions… relying on instincts rather than BE SURE NOT TO SCREW UP like what Alex has been doing lately which makes him indecisive and late with his throws.
I think Martz #1 goal is fix the offense. #2 is fix it with A. Smith at QB. If he does both he’ll be a genius times 2. So I think it will say a whole lot about Alex if Martz chooses Hill as the starter going into the season.
What do you think?
Always faithful….at least when thinking of a new year. What I’ve seen with Martz utilizing RB’s is Marshall Faulk and Kevin Jones. Faulk was a mature sucessful RB prior to the Rams and continued to excel in Martz program. On the other hand, Kevin Jones, Det was going nowhere and fast before Martz. Last year Jones was a top 5 performer in all ways prior to getting hurt. Yardage, catches and TD’s. Martz quickly turned a very boring offense and made it click fast. No name & rookie receivers became noticed in the league fast. He took a backup QB from the Bengals made him respected in the NFL. If Det. had a defense they could have been contenders.
The biggest challenge with Martz is how long will he stay. I think that Nolan has done wonders with the Defense and special teams. If Martz can do the same with the offense, I guarantee playoffs in 2008!!!!!
I am taking the cautious approach and will not get excited until I see the difference (positively). Although couple of quick comments:
Martz will be better than MR. JIM NO CLUE HOSTLER.
I wonder if Frank Gore could be used as Marshall Faulk with proper O line personnel… humm! interesting thought.
Dan
There’s an old anecdote about how according to the laws of physics, it should be impossible for a bumblebee to fly, because its construction is aerodynamically unsound.
But unaware of these truths, the bumblebee goes about its business airborne.
We all are capable of imagining ways in which a 49ers meltdown could occur if things don’t work out well. One beat writer even invoked images of a fistfight midfield between Nolan and Martz.
OK, those are certainly possible.
In the mean time, until such time as we witness fresh cracks in the hastily cemented foundation that is the 2008 49ers, let’s give them the benefit of the doubt, and see what rabbit they might pull out of the hat.
(That should be enough metaphors for one day)
I’m curious to see what happens with the O-line situation. For one, Justin Smiley was our best lineman BEFORE the last season. This was a lost year for him. Not sure why. Is it the injuries he’s had, or is it a scheme which emphasized power over mobility (Smiley is a smallish athletic guard by 2007 standards).
In a Mad Mike offense, athletic linemen might have an edge though. So what to do about Justin? Let him go or try to salvage what was, through 2006, a pretty good career?
Staley should be a good left tackle, he is a good athlete and I would expect him to thrive in Martz’s offense. Obviously, we need to upgrade at the second tackle. Jennings is hurt way too much and isn’t that impressive when he is healthy.
Any thoughts?
I now can certainly imagine Larry Allen coming back now, there is also a (glimmer of hope)chance that Mike Martz could attract /lure some of his old players who could make an immediate impact (although they may be past their prime, such as Orlando Pace. He would be certainly better than Jennigs, if it is possible it would be exciting to see Pace and Allen on O line. I am sure he is not going to throw the ball if he has proper tools (bog O line) to run the ball, apssing game would be generated automatically when the teams will have to respect the niners running game. If they dare to put 8 men in the box than our ‘mad Mike” is a perfect answer for it; with 4 wide receivers set, with Gore and Davis in the mix.
Cheers,
Dan
While hiring Mike Martz to replace Jim Hostler is an upgrade, I hope that he doesn’t wait as long as Norv Turner waited to use LT! Once they realized that they had that beast they started using him and look how they finished so……..I also hope Frank Gore dedicates himself to his offseason and drops a few pounds to make himself a little more elusive in the open field after he catches some passes. I am PRAYING that Vernon Davis becomes the open field threat he can be under this new offense. Everytime he caught the ball it was poorly thrown and he didn’t have enough time to break 2 tackles (if he even caught the ball) if he can catch the ball downfield in rhythym he can be super dangerous. I still think we need a playmaker at WR and of course a PASS RUSHER!
What does everyone think?
9-7 2008!
One thing to keep in mind is that Kevin Jones is both a)oft-injured and b) a terrible running back. That’s why Martz didn’t run too much the past few years. I think Frank Gore will get plenty of touches, especially if the wide receiving core isn’t improved.
Gang…….Martz will use the running game.
But when the defense stacks the box he will attck them deep. He’ll do it sooner instead of later. When that works he will run again…..& so on.
If the qb finds the receiver & he catches it, it works.
* * * * * * * * * * * *
Oakland Trib has a “Sports Spat” question this week —
WAS THE MIKE MARTZ HIRING A GOOD THING FOR MIKE NOLAN???
Reader replies go in the paper on Friday Jan. 18.
( ( ( Include your reasons why. ) ) )
Reply at http://www.insidebayarea.com/sportsspat
Vote at http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports (Look for Sports Spat)
Or just send e-mail to Turn@angnewspapers.com with your first/last name and your city.
* * * * * * * * * * * *
OK..So the nay sayers say this wil inevitablely be another bad hire…Lets look at this logically, bloggers…the team will generate more offense, Martz doesnt take the job just because its offered, he also must like what the potential. He may be a receivers kind of friend but he also knows value and Gore is major value…Also the main battle will be Lelie…and using him, he is the stretch guy we dont need 2, just 1 that is motivated..Martz will motivate Lelie in spite of Nolan
Also there are naysayers that gripe the W/L record may go 1 or just 2 better…I disagree…The defense was bought and paid for but still needed cohesiveness..and its 1st yr that was not the case..Willis at linebacker and the d-backs will get better and not leave the gaps as much as some pass happy offenses exploited…The niners will always be remembered for the 20 yrs of success and 5 Supers..go back prior to 81/82..there were 9 yrs of crap prior to those 20…So stop the we want what we once had..at least we are not Baltimore,N.O….The Niners make good O.C. hires the problem is they are the wrong hires ..forget about no player loyalty…The niners have had Zero coordinator loyalty…So blame the morons that are using the 49ers as a mere stepping stone..Even when the niners are sub-500
#68 - excellent question. What happens to the OL will say a lot about who is really driving the offense. If it were up to Nolan, Larry Allen would be back without any hesitation, and Justin Smiley would be let go.
Why? For the same reason Nolan would like to bring back Trent Dilfer and Derek Smith. “Experience” counts more important than ability. Bigness counts more than mobility. Obedience counts more than innovation. Etc.
If Martz has his way, the OL will be fine-tuned for its ability to pass-protect first, run second. Which probably means out with Allen, in with Smiley. The exact opposite of what Nolan would do.
The changes to the OL and WR positions should reveal a lot about how the rest of the story plays out. If we see moves that are clearly un-Martz like, that’s probably a forewarning of major troubles ahead.
by 4/08 niner fans can expect to see why hiring of martz. mike n mike will co exist, ol/wrs will be upgraded,and the fullback pos will be more a focal pt. wrs WILL be added. Why u say? Both new gm and ol have to leave a signature stamp for the new niners. martz took the pos because with this team, up is the only place go.
lets be honest. there is no way the offense can be as bad as it was with HOS. Martz can make this offense look at least like it did with norv at the helm. I think actually better since hill will be the starter in my opinion. gore will get his touches. when i mean touches i mean both as a reciver and as a runner. nolan wanted to cut his carries anyway, this actually works out.
Any thoughts on the Superbowl, any one?
After watching all the playoff games, I couldn’t help thinking that the NY Giants showed more intensity than any other team did. Only Jacksonville even came close, in one game (their win over Pittsburgh).
What was especially impressive was that after missing two potentially game-winning field goals, and losing the coin toss in OT, the Giants could have so easily imploded, but didn’t.
They hung in there on the road, 75,000 cheeseheads screaming, in -24 degrees weather, and got it done. As a team, they wanted it more badly than the Packers, and simply would not take no for an answer.
I have a feeling that the G-Men are going to pull off the upset over the heavily favored Patriots.
9erOldtimer, agree the G-Men are playing with the most intensty, but the Pats will be equally intense by the Super Bowl, with history at their fingertips. With their Montana-like offense, I’ll take the Pats.
Erik
The current head coaches at Green Bay and San Diego were both offensive coaches chosen by Nolan. Mike Martz is an excellent offensive minded coach who will under these circumstances run the offense. I also feel he has a longer latter to climb to become a head coach again.
Look for the suprise team NFL team in ‘08–49ers
John Nicholson
The Giants beat a Packers team with a quarterback that continues to cost them games. The Patriots know the Giants are coming, and I don’t think the Giants have a chance.
Brady’s “ankle injury” is brilliant, because it directs 100% of the coverage of the Patriots to Brady’s foot. And not, say, Randy Moss. Patriots by 10.
anyone still deny Montana da best? heard all year from chris coll. that the pats were the Greatest team he Ever seen. what a joke! guess he hasnt gotten over cincy’s losses to niners. undisputed best ever qb INCLUDING SBS, MONTANA!
Catch II:
Any Given Sunday…
I agree 1000% that Mike Martz was not a good hire. Might as well hire Steve Spurrier here to run the same thing. This organization is officially ran by a bunch of morons. I can assure you that the 49ers will not be a playoff team under this “regime”…I like how they’re spending money in free agency but don’t like some the players they’re picking up. The 49ers management team are like a bunch of rappers buying spinning rims and gold grillz…spend your money wisely and on quality players ! Not brokedown players like deshaun foster, jt o sullivan cause he played for Mike Martz…who’s next Isaac Bruce ??..Long as Alex Smith is taking snaps for the 49ers this team isn’t going anywhere. I am questioning this guy McCloughlins intelligence “have faith in Alex” ?….I can assure you guys like Leigh Steinberg, Drew Rosenhaus and every agent is going to send their brokedown players to SF and get them a nice contract. IDIOTS !!!