Progress? (Warriors 104, Cavs 108)
The Warriors made progress Tuesday night. Ultimately, however, that makes their failure to bring home a win against the Cavs all the more frustrating. Unlike the losses to the Jazz, when one big, obvious thing went wrong (their interior play), this game slipped away because the team failed to nail the little stuff. Missed lay-ups, slow defensive rotations, clanked free throws. These are the errors of a team in dire need of focus and some positive momentum. If they’re going to find it soon, it’s going to have to be against the team in the NBA most looking forward to pounding them into submission. Thursday night, to use an ambiguously loaded word, will be “interesting.”
But back to Tuesday’s loss. The Warriors made strides in several areas, but they didn’t get far enough.
- After looking very porous on defense during the first three games, the team finally created some havoc with their zone in the second half. Davis, Ellis, Barnes, Andris, and even O’Bryant and Wright all made nice contributions at times. Unfortunately, as they got more tips and deflections, they started to over-commit. The Cavs, very used to seeing all defenders on one side of the court guarding you-know-who, looked very comfortable swinging the ball to the open man once the Warriors went too far. The open jumpers at the end of the game were a direct result of the Warriors pushing too hard to make things happen on defense. Jackson’s return won’t be a cure-all, but at least he’s pretty good at not collapsing too deep when the team switches into a 2-3 zone. Ellis, Azubuike, Pietrus, Barnes? They’ve yet to learn.
- Ellis, Barnes and Pietrus dropped the quantity of three pointers but shot with greater efficiency. All three players bounced back from struggles from the outside by playing within the flow of the game. Ellis, in particular, despite a low shooting percentage seemed to work a little harder at moving the ball a few steps closer to the basket or gaining a few more inches of daylight for his shot. He also worked to get to the line 7 times – which easily could have been more with a few more sympathetic whistles. The biggest offender on bad threes, however, continued to drive down the team’s percentage. Baron went 1-6, on the way to an 11-28 night from the field. The story is familiar to anyone who’s watched Davis recently. He was tenacious early, getting to the hoop at will. Then he gradually settled for more outside shots. His driving returning in the second half and he worked himself into a rhythm. Unfortunately, after hitting two or three high percentage shots, he suddenly felt at liberty to shoot a variety of crazy leaning, long range faders. The results were disastrous. I can pinpoint the exact moment the game flipped for the Cavs. With just under 5 minutes left in the 4th, Baron took a long fade away from the left corner after pounding the ball for 5-10 seconds. It clanked, the rebound went long, and the Cavs got an easy fast break bucket. End of Warriors run.
- Speaking of runs, it only lasted 4 minutes, but it was beautiful to see Brandan Wright run up and down the court. Despite being freakishly skinny and having the longest arms I can remember on an NBA player, he’s smooth. The box score shows nothing as to his performance. He played at NBA speed and showed some court smarts on defense by constantly checking the baseline and providing help at the right times. I think his plus/minus numbers for the night might have been slightly negative, but the speed of the game picked up when he checked in. He actually reminded me of a much longer version of Jackson on defense – a tangle of arms and legs that always seems to be near the ball. Again, we didn’t see much, but I’m intrigued. Unfortunately, with the game tight throughout, Nelson went with trusted hands. Brandan should snag more minutes soon, but it’ll have to wait for a less tense situation. Tuesday night certainly didn’t hurt his cause.
- Finally, it’s worth noting that Pietrus sunk to the bottom of the veteran rotation with only 20 minutes of action. When Jackson returns, that’ll likely be cut in half. MP was given a golden opportunity to prove that he could help this team. He’s failed on nearly every front. When Game 8 rolls around, he’ll likely be number 8 in the depth chart. Frankly, given the variety of ways he’s contributed to the Warriors’ losses in this young season, the move can’t come soon enough.
History repeated itself twice last week against the Jazz. We’ll see if the Warriors can work a little historic mojo in their favor against the Mavs Thursday night. Given the problems still on full display against the Cavs, I wouldn’t hold my breath. Want a date to circle on your calendar? Try November 14. The Warriors sparked their playoff run last year with a win over Detroit. The Pistons may very well arrive in Oakland this year with the Warriors, once again, struggling for answers.
It’s only preseason.
Come’on Cohen, you’re better than this. Don’t be a one trick Tacticioner.
They don’t look like a team. They play individual basketball for most of the game with hardly any cutting or slashing. they drive and kick it out to shoot the three. I have questioned Nellie’s system from day one and I know I am gonna take a lot of heat for questioning the coach who took us to the playoffs. Who plays Al Harrington at center agaisnt the Jazz honestly. When you don’t open up your squad and use Belinelli, Lasme, O’Bryant, Wright you aren’t gonna win. They lost to a Cavs team that had no Eric Snow, Donyell Marshall, Larry Hughes, Anderson Varejao. Take a good look at Don Nelson’s system and think what have we done right this season.
Nellie’s system of perimeter play opens up inside chances when the defenders come out to cover. Last night in the first half we saw several back door cuts and baseline moves that resulted in easy lay ups or dunks. In the second half, no movement, just guys waiting at the arc. When a 3 goes up from the corner the opposite perimeter player needs to crash the boards. This would typically be Al or MP, but they refuse to hustle in and get position.
Adam
You were very diplomatic in referring to Davis’ play last nite. He seems very lost without his cohort, Jackson. Let us hope that is the cause of what for now seems to be reckless, sloppy, egocentric play, appearing to focus solely on himself as being the offense, instead of getting others involved. His blind passes that were either intercepted or thrown out of bounds, his continuing to throw up bricks, his failure to convert on the line: he seems to be in a funk, unable to provide the leadership that this teams so desperately needs. Regardless of any analysis of others’ lack of contribution, last night’s game was a winner for the Warriors if one “subtracts” Davis’ multiple poor shot selections, his turnovers and his abyssmal free throwing.
I truly hope that we see a revitalized and more focused Davis once Jackson returns. However, I think that we might be deluding ourselves in thinking of Jackson as some type of “savior”. The only energy I saw out there last nite was from Ellis, who continues to impress and improve his his shooting. Otherwise, it just seems that the fire that this team had late last season does not exist, starting with their leader, Baron Davis, who clearly needs to tighten his belt and suck it up. I am beginning to get the sense that Nelson, like Montgomery, might not have it in him to get Davis under control, as he appeared to my perception to be out of control, especially during the first period of errant, blind passes and his continued turnovers.
Let’s hope that Davis can reach down, deep within, and start refocusing on getting everyone involved and put a hold on his long range shooting when he is ice cold.
The season is young but they need to stop what looks like an ominous spiral downward: it all starts with him and his leadership role, regardless of how much one wants to criticize other playerss: it is his shoulders the Warriors rode last year, and it is him, the “star”, that needs to take the lead in righting the ship, sort of speak.
For those of you who attended the game, I personally enjoyed the halftime flipshow. Anyone?
What’s happening is not just Baron’s fault. With some exceptions, this is a rag-tag team of loose ends that has been given the green light to go out there and create mayhem. That’s exactly what they’re doing. The ball doesn’t move, there is no flow. There’s individual talent for sure, but no sense of teamwork, no seeing the floor, no consistent plan of attack. Like Nelson says, “we are who we are.” I can’t wait to see more from Bellinelli and Wright who seem like actual basketball players.
It does not look like that Buke and Belli can fill the spot occupied by JR. Ellis can score some but has no playmaking ability. When teams need a basket, they go right at Ellis.
The W’s are in big trouble. They could be 0-7 and will be on long road trip next week.
Davis is playing for himself. Actually every man is playing for himself.
C’mon the Cavs hit more threes and got more assists; didn’t they beat us at our game?
Who was playing D on Gibson too? MAN it’s gonna be Baron Avis soon (no d and strictly rented for a short time).
Frustration!
I find it an interesting comparison that the Clippers without Brand & Livingston have started the season 3-0, while the Dubs waving the “If we only had Jackson” banner are 0-4…Good teams overcome!
The way Nellie is letting Baron play, he’s bascially telling the rest of the team you stink. The only way to win is to let Baron play one-on-five…From my old tennis days the mantra was always “You have to change a losing game”…I thinks its time Nellie.
I need more Wright and O’Bryant….
They seem to be playing well, and then Nellie yanks them after a couple of minutes, never to be seen again.
Give the kids a chance to earn more playing time!
Adam, I can understand Nellie not wanting to tell players to stop shooting 3’s but it seems to me he could institute some ground rules for the team:
a) shooting a 3 on a drive and dish is ok anytime. The idea behind that is the drive creates an open man and that shot would be in the flow of the game.
b) 3’s are ok when the shot clock is about to expire.
c) except (a) above, shooting a 3 in the first 8 seconds of the shot clock is an absolute no-no!
These rules could be understood by all and should be easy to enforce; ie, pull from game (including or especially Baron.
Adam, Nellie’s coaching style reminds me of the run and shoot offense in football. It’s a gimmick, fun to watch, scores lots of points, however it’ll never win consistently because basketball is based on sound principles: defense, rebounding and team play. When Lebron took over guarding BD in the second half, BD started to go one and one with him and he struggled. Instead of setting up his other teammates, BD kept going at LB, like in a street game. I wonder why Nellie doesn’t remind BD that it’s a team game? It’s gonna be a loooong season if this keeps up.
I didn’t see a lot of the game last night, but what I did see was Baron walking the ball up court, dribbling way too much trying to create something for himself and then not having the gas to go where he should have. Fatigue will do that to you regardless of who you are. Nellie has got to put some faith in others who are fresher, will pass, cut to the hoop, and play like a team. Defense has got be smarter whether it be zone or man. 0-4 is not the end of the season, but it’s definitely not a good way to start. Here’s hoping they turn this around soon.
I’m just as disappointed as anyone with our 0-4 start. We played well enough to win last night, but came up short because we couldn’t hit our free throws and we had a couple of late rotations on defense. As much as I realize that BD called his own number far too often last night (he should never shoot 28 shots in 1 game), you guys are going way overboard with your critisizem. The guy played his ass off for 46 minutes. He is in a shooting slump so he is trying to find his stroke - which is probably why he shot so much. The main issue that I have is that almost every time he drove to the basket good things happened. He as able to find his teammates for good looks or get himself a fairly easy shot inside. Baron needs to focus on being a playmaker first - he can get 15 points without even looking to score. One thing that really pissed me off was the shot he took with about 13 seconds left when we were down by 4. There was really no reason not to go directly to the basket and force the refs to make a call or get a free lane to the basket because the Cavs don’t want to foul. On the previous play when Gibson hit that 3 for them to go up by 4, Monta didn’t not rotate over to Boobie and Baron (who was doubling LBJ) had to run clear across the court and didn’t have a chance.
The huge issue I see so far this season (besides the obvious free throw shooting/rebounding problems) is what I was talking about before the season started: We have yet to establish an identity with this team. We know what we want to do, but can’t seem to consistantly keep the energy going throughout the game. There were a couple of streches last night where I saw the hustle and intensity that was so important to our late season run last year, but we were not able to sustain the level of play. We are going to continue to struggle until we can play with that fire and intensity for 4 quarters.
Hopefully these guys realize that the will continue to be outplayed if they don’t step up the energy level. We have a bulls eye on our chest because of the excitement that we stirred up last year and teams are looking to show they can beat the “Giant Killers”. Now the “Giant” is back and if you thought the first 3 teams we played were motivated, these guys are going to try to embarrass us. Hopefully this is just the motivation we need to find ourselves.
Baron is trying to fill up the stats so he can get a big contract from the Ws or other teams next year. This will hurt the team. If you go back and look at the game carefully, he never threw a pass AZ’s way. Every time, he brought the ball up and if he saw AZ, he turned the other way. I can’t understand that. If he gave AZ the ball early before the defense set, maybe AZ can beat his man to the basket.
I agree with Wfan1 to some degree that Monta does not create for others, but overall, I really like his game. His energy last night and shooting touch when he first entered the game was awesome. He is getting better, and to me, he is a very special player. I hope Nelson would run some isolation plays for him and capitalize on his quickness and shooting that would be awesome. Also Nelson needs to allow him time to develop skills in other areas and not asking him to do things that he is not comfortable with right away.
AH is looking better also, I was always critical of him, but he is playing very good the last 2 games.
Many people will disagree with me on this, but I will say the Ws have a lot individual talent. There are many good players on the team. The Ws should be very successful if Nelson is willing to adjust his game plans and make the players play as a team, focus on defense, half course set, go back to fundamental and abandon his gimmicky small ball stuff.
Wfan1 is very critical of Mullin for not getting good players on the Ws, and yes, I do agree we do not have any superstar on the team. But I think the team can win games with good collective team efforts. We have many above-average-NBA-skills players on the team. It is time for Nelson to use them right. I am holding Nelson responsible and not Mullin.
BD — tho he scored 29 (and his opponent 22, including the open killer at the end) — was the reason the W’s lost last night. He’s still doing the wrong things and still playing weak at crunch time. There’s an easy cure, but Nellie must stick to these three rules:
First and foremost, no more than 36 minutes in any game. Period. (See Nash, Steve.) If the ship is sinking in the 2d or 3d Qs, we have to find another answer. Nellie’s brain knows this, but his gut has him cheating here.
Second, no more than three dribbles once over the half court line. No more pounding — the surest road to disaster.
Third, no more threes unless (1) there’s less than three seconds on the shot clock or (2) you’ve got 10 feet of open space.
Follow these rules religiously, and BD will be back to playing like he did last year. (And if he ever learns how to use AB like Jack does, we’ll really see something from this team; he’s still passing on easy PNR’s with AB for no discernible reason — causing AB to start to doubt himself.) BD’s the key here — but he must open the lock himself.
Stupid Nellie Small Ball* leads to one year of success followed by ten years of ineptitude when the league catches up to this fad. Guess what, they’ve caught up … again.
There is a way out, however Play the Young Bigs big time. OBryant, Young, etc. Otherwise it’s going to be a dunk-a-thon on our heads by other teams’ big power players for this season and years to come.
Nellie is burning out Baron early in the season and not even getting a win for it. Bad strategy. The way it’s going, even when Jackson gets back, we will not be as deep a team as we thought at the beginning of the year, especially since Nellie is not giving enough looks to the youngins. I won’t pile on Baron this early in the season, but what I will say is that if he were in the class of Nash, I firmly believe we’d be 2-2 right now.
Does anyone else see that Baron’s three point shot form is somewhat different from last year? At the end of last year, he couldn’t miss. Now he can’t make ‘em.
Oldfan - good points.
If Nellie continues with the same formula for Thursday’s game, Dallas certainly will have its revenge. Get more players involved, and less Pietrus! I don’t know where he got this label of being a decent defender - all he does is hack and commit imbecilic fouls. I can only recall one decent sequence from last night when he was guarding LeKing. Maybe Miami still wants him?
(correction)
Stupid Nellie Small Ball leads to one year of success followed by ten years of ineptitude when the league catches up to this fad. Guess what, they’ve caught up … again.
There is a way out, however Play the Young Bigs big time. OBryant, Wright, etc. Otherwise it’s going to be a dunk-a-thon on our heads by other teams’ big power players for this season and years to come.
Well, I was hoping to be 2-2 at this point, so I’m a little disappointed. However, if you’re concerned about Nelson as coach, the good news is that he’s been lucky enough to win 1,232 times in the NBA. I wouldn’t give up on him just yet. Sure, he hasn’t won a title, but only 3 current coaches have. The NBA is just a lot more dynastic by nature than football and baseball.
We are playing better, and could easily have won this one. After defending Baron recently and saying the team as a whole was 0-3, I’m going to have to lay primary blame for this loss on Baron’s volume shooting. The problem is that we need Baron to play a lot, so it’s hard to punish him by benching him. I’m sure Nelson is in his ear when we’re not looking; hopefully he can get through to him.
I’d like to see the young guys get more minutes, but our pattern of play in the first games has discouraged this. In every game, we have fallen behind fairly early, made runs to catch up, then drifted back repeatedly. We need to draw first blood so the bench players can come in and try to hold a lead. Mistakes are much easier to tolerate when you’re up by 10 than down by 10.
Well, at least I know what I’m not doing tomorrow night, watching the Warriors. Wake me when this nightmare start is over. 0-7 sounds more likely than not.
Not only has Nellie not won a title, but he has a very poor overall record in the playoffs. People quickly catch up to his gimmickry. Let’s hope it changes this year, and he shifts to a more positive view of Young Bigs. Then we could see some real action in the postseason, instead of midgets doing well in round 1 and then getting thunder-dunked on in ensuing rounds, as is Nelson’s 30-year history.
Actually, since half the teams lose in the 1st round, most coaches end up below .500 in the playoffs. If your sole focus is winning the championship, you should just switch your allegiance. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think only 5 teams have won titles since the beginning of the Jordan era.
The fact is, you build teams to win games, not titles. You hope to get lucky and land a Jordan or Duncan. Or you luck out, get a Wade, and buy a Shaq. The Warriors are still trying to establish a winning team. Will we get lucky and go further? Only time will tell, so enjoy the sport in the meantime!
I think everyone has lost sight of who BD really is. After knowing BD’s strengths and weakness’ we redefined him to something he is not after last years end of the year run/playoffs.
BD’s natural style of play does not promote the elevation of his teamates game to good team ball. Unlike Nash who can take 4 players in a slump and consistenetly put them into a position that will make them play better, individually and as a team. Nash is ALWAYS moving himself and his teamates in that direction. BD does not.
However, when the players around BD are playing well, BD becomes invaluable, maybe more so than Nash. BUT, BD is not pushing his teamates in that direction, they have to get their on their own. In fact, BD promotes a team playing poorly to continue in that direction because of his incredibly selfish play at some of the worst moments, as Adam noted in last nights game.
I look forward to the W’s playing great team ball, and they will. And BD will will be invaluable again, but he will not be a part of the other players getting to that point. Let’s hope it comes soon.
The half court offense MUST improve or it will be a LONG season. Not saying to stop running but when you cannot you must execute an effective half court set to win games like last nights. Also I sense a lack of team energy, not sure why?? Thoughts???
Is Nelson’s small ball (eek) the blessed savior of everything? No. Is it the most productive system we’ve seen in the last decade? By far.
0 - 4 sucks. Davis is better when he remembers to be the facilitator; in his case assists are better than points. Sometimes he seems to forget.
Baron Davis should learn from young Lebron’s example of a what a true team player, captain and leader is. It is to make your team play better together. If he has no confidence in his teammates, why should they work hard to move without the ball when he’s going to jack it up anyway? As long as he plays like a selfish primadona, he will never be among the elite point guards in this league. And if hard for fans to respect his game, I wonder how his teammates really feel about him?
Agreed Mano. He is also better the closer he is to the basket. One of the main concepts that propelled us at the end of last season was setting up davis on the high post to initiate the offense in the half court. He would break his man down moving toward the basket which would force defenders to colapse in the middle. He would then either finish around the rim, dump it off to a cutting teammate, or kick out to wide open shooter. This was the most successful way to run the half court offense back then, but now we are just playing screen and roll or screen and shoot. I think the entire team and coaches need to sit in the video room and watch each of the last 10 games of the regular season, the Dallas series and the first half of game 3 against Utah. We need to get back to what gave us success last year. Although there are a number of players that have played well individually for us, we have yet to see the TEAM play well together.
I really do not think that we are over criticizing Baron Davis. It is done for his own good. He should read our blog. At this is point he is overpaid and fairly soon Baron will realize this and he does not change then the Warriors will become really worst. If Mullin is smart a trade is deserved before the goods get rotten.
If Baron really wants to get a bigger contract then he has to make his teammates better as he did last year.
No one gets a bigger contract because of his individual efforts. Monta should not learn from Davis individualistic approach. The big money is directly proportional to the number of assists and making sure the team runs follow their leadership.
Baron and Monta should learn from LeBron James. James can be a big scorer as individual; however, last night he play defense and generated assists to make his teammates beat us.
I really hope that Baron Davis changes his way of playing when Jackson is back. At this time Baron Davis is not even close to the level of Nash and he should really need to know this.
This year two players, Baron Davis and Gilbert Arenas, want to get an MVP award and have declared their wishes to the media. They are really struggling because of their individualistic approach.
I just puked in my mouth from watching the game
Just an add-on to what I posted a couple of days ago about what’s bugging the W’s scoring machine. Although I have not seen any W’s game lately this year due to the fact that we don’t have cable or have been to any games live, just relying on the good old radio while looking at the live scores on-line, I can graphically see the problems. Stats do lie.
BD is currently shooting at 36.7% and almost 13% of 3pt
His FT% is pegged at 70.%. Assist ay 9.8 pg.
Monta is shooting ar 37.2% and 70.8% FT. He is dishing out 3.0 apg
Other players except the 2 above mentioned are shooting at least 50% of their shots, which is pretty good. Freethrow-wise they are shooting at 70% clip which is below average. A decent freethrow shooting team must at least hit 75%. Yes 5% makes a lot of difference.
With rebounds, well the W’s cannot do anything about it at the moment, and under the steals department, the W’s are not where they were last year.
To summarize BD must limit his 3pt attempts and start looking for an open man. KA, AH and AB needs a lot of touches as these players are shooting above 50% as they go for higher percentage shots. With this in mind, he can up his assist to 11 or even 12 per game. An assist either accounts for 2 or 3 pts so if you add 2 pts for the 3 extra assists you get extra 6 pts and 9pts fo 3’s. The same applies to Monta. If he is really being groomed to be a PG, he should start kicking out the ball once he penetrates and attract the defense. Although classified as a PF, Al is really a big small forward and has great hands from 10 ft and beyond. Beside Marco and Jax, I think Al is the second or third best 3pt shooter in the team. If Monta can churn out 5 or 6 assist per game that will be a big plus.
Lastly, if you noticed the 3pt fg% of opposing teams are much higher than the W’s because the perimeter defense is poor and the W’s are either slow in rotating their defense or are just too pooped. Their perimeter defense needs a lot of honing. Hoping that when Jax returns it will improve but since he is till 3 games away from officially calling it his 2007-08 season, the W’s must act now. MP is a bust at PF and SF/SG. Nellie must find another alternative. Barnes is a better choice although Lasme can play either PF or SF. He is fast and long. Although he is inexperienced, giving him minutes will not only boost his morale but also gain the needed experience.
They have been relying on 8 players the past 4 games and Nellie should start giving minutes to the youngsters. If this goes on you will find key players most in particular BD and AB, to be either burned out or injured. This is what we W’s fans don’t want to see.
Just my 2 cents.
This team, talent wise is better than last year. Al showing improvement every game, while we have two more young biggies, so we are better than last year in one position. But, right now W’s are not playing in rhythm, they are forcing the issue. May be the losses will teach them to be more patient and let the game come to them, esp BD. I was hoping for 3-4 record in first seven games, but looks like now I have to hope for 2-5. Warriors will bounce back, may be W’s are better suited to come back from. Can’t wait for Warriors to make a run.
I’d like to see Lasme in game situations too; he’s got the potential to be a Dennis Rodman-type sleeper (maybe).
Also we don’t have a lot of other options either.
Its a good thing that the W’s did not get MP a long term contract this summer.
Lasme is a very interesting player and Nelson needs to give him more minutes to really bring out his true potentials. Ditto for Brandan.
I am just hoping that during the thrusday’s game when the W’s gets the goat of Dallas once more and manages to get a big lead, that Nelson will give both Lasme and Brandan some playing time say 8 to 10 minutes.
Its not Baron’s fault its Nellie’s run and gun that we have going. Teams know how to slow it doen and when that happens we have no clue how to run the half court offense. I’m sure another coach would relish the oppurtunity to mould our team into a basketball team with defense and higher basketball IQ. Right now its too predictable and not fun to watch. We have a slump go down by 10, come back go down, we can’t put up consistent no’s and we have the personnel to do it.
Baron’s settling for low-percentage long-range shots is actually Nellie’s fault, who keeps BD way too long on the court without decent breathers.
As you mentioned, it’s a consistent pattern. At the beginning of games, when Baron has plenty of energy, he drives to the basket. But last night Nellie played him for 46 minutes. BD just can’t keep that energy level without a break. He KNOWS when he doesn’t have what it takes to attack the basket. So he fires from the perimeter, hoping the Nellie will realize it and pluck him out to get some rest.
Also, BD is going to be a free agent at the end of the season, and he knows very well that in this rate, playing 40+ minutes per game, his body will not hold up. He definitely doesn’t want to negotiate new contracts from the injured list.
Nelson ball game is what made the Warriors to be in the map, fun to watch, and made us to get to the last year playoff.
Baron Davis was the one who made the Warriors last year. Therefore he knows and can play Nelson ball game. I also believe that if we do not have the last year’s Baron Davis the Warriors will not succeed.
I agree that many players can not play Nelson ball game and it does not imply that they are bad players. I also believe we have players that we have can play Nelson ball game except perhaps for Troy and Austin; however, it is too early to judge them.
If you tell me that Nelson’s fault is not give minutes to our youngsters then I might agree with you. Yet he is closer to them than any of us and I trust him what he is doing even thought I do not like it because forces that Baron and AB to play more minutes than he suppose to play.
By the way, I am a big fan of last year’s Baron Davis and I really want that he succeed and get the recognition that he is looking for.
Believe It:
>>This team, talent wise is better than last year
Are you smoking something? The W’s have 4 rooks (Wright, Belli, Kosta, Lasme) and 3 raw players (Ellis, Biedrins and POB), 2 error prone players in Barnes and MP and no PF.
Mully is asking Nellie to win with the group I just mentioned. None of the rooks are close to be ready.
All I know is that unless the rooks can be ready in hurry, the w’s are in big trouble.
Here’s the solution.
Davis/Jackson/Harrington/Wright/biedrins starting five. Hudson/Ellis/Azubuke/Croshere/O’Bryant second five.
Joe of SSF,
Looks a better lineup than what they have right now. Lasme and Barnes can sub for the PF/SF in either line up.
MP in the doghouse until he learns and does what he is told to do.
Last year at this time we had a starting line up of:
BD
JRich
Pietris
Dunleavy
Murphy
and a bench of:
Andris
Monta
Barnes (walk-on)
Roberson
Diogu
McCloud
POB
Foyle
I have to disagree that we are less “talented” than we were last year. The “skill” level of the players we have now is much greater than that of those we had. So far we have not played great (or even really good) basketball, but it takes time for most teams to get things going in the begining of the season. The NBA season is not a sprint, it’s a marathon. We have to be patient and this team will come around. Hopefully it’s not too late. I have seem them play better and better each game so far this season.
First 7 games of 2006-07 season:
vs. LA Lakers w/o Kobe - Loss (98-99)
vs. Portland - Win (102-89)
at Utah - Loss (82-106)
at Dallas - Win (107-104)
at New Orleans - Loss (93-97)
vs. New Orleans - Win (121-116)
vs. Detroit - Win (111-79)
After wining the Dallas game at the begining of the season last year we lost to N.O. but were able to string together 5 wins (our second longest winning streak of the season). Hopefully we will have a similar fate and the game on Thursday will jumpstart our season.
We can still go 3-4 without Jax if we play focused, spirited basketball. We have to show this team that we are behind them and we support them. That is what motivated them at the end of last season. We can sit here and point out what they are doing wrong or what they need to change, but the fact is that they just need to continue to work hard and play better basketball. Shots will start falling and guys will start playing better together as long as they keep their faith in eachother. I will continue to have faith in them and what they can do as a team even if they continue to lose as long as they keep playing hard and don’t give up.
Joe of SSF -
Are you serious? That’s your solution? Would you care to elaborate on at least 1 reason why this might be a viable solution to our many issues right now. Why even post if you aren’t going to think for more than 5 seconds before you do so?
If you remember last year, Nellie shuffled the starting line up at least 20 times during the season trying to find something that worked. The solution to our problems does not lie in the 5 guys you pick to start the game or the 5 guys you pick to come off the bench. The solutions lies in how much energy and intensity we play offense and defense with (and if we can sustain it throughout the game), how well we focus while shooting free throws, how much we score inside, how well we pass the ball, etc.
Why don’t Nellie try a line up of:
Monta at PG
AZ/Belinelli at SG
AL H/MBarnes at SF
BW/Lasme - PF
AB/POB at C
Try this combination for at least a quarter or for two
quarters and we’ll what will happen. But I am quite positive this will give us some wins!!!
I think that Pbob20 hit the “nail on the head”: one’s opinion of Baron Davis’ current play depends upon how one views him.
Is he the team leader, an MVP candidate, an All-Star, a player worth 17M who is worthy of an extension of that contract, or is Baron Davis “just” a good play who reached new incredible heights during the last 20 games of 2007 and the first round of the playoffs.
I must admit that I probably erred in my earlier comments on the side of the former, which is the basis of my finding fault with his play. However, I was surprised to read that so many other posters similarly placed a great deal of blame at Davis’ feet for the disspirited, disjointed play of the team to date.
If in fact he is MVP quality and a real All-Star, he will adjust his game to elevate the team. Hopefully this will happen.
all these attempts at changing the line-up are silly IMO. With about 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter, it was so obvious Baron was suffering from fatigue. The game was by no means out of reach, and we needed him to be rested for the final portion of the game. I was screaming at the TV for Nelson to sit Baron just two or three minutes. He needs longer breaks. You guys all want to come down on him as if everything is entirely his fault for not playing up to the potential you believe he has. But c’mon give the guy a break, name one player in the NBA that can keep up the pace Nelson asks without any rest.
We wonder why he is throwing up so many poor shots … When he is too fatigued to get to the basket, he doesn’t have much choice. I think the answer is to give Baron some rest.
I know it’s not all BD’s fault; at the same time he’s the highest paid and most talented player, the acknowledged team leader and we’ve all seen him play like this, and play better. We prefer the smart distributer to the pound the ball and force a shot individual player.
Wonder if the Nugs are ready for some cap relief yet? They could use a decent guard to play off AI too.
Would Monta + exception be worth Neñe? Maybe we could give them Mickael too (why they’re not looking).
I mean Denver could stand to lose some contracts, especially if they’re just going to keep getting beat.
Neñe and Brandon would give us an interesting PF; two different looks and strengths but both fast enough to run with our guards.
Great posts today. A marked improvement over yesterday’s chatter. Today’s “Fast Break Post of the Day” goes to northwestpat who completely stole my thunder (Note the absence of a capital T) by saying, “Baron Davis should learn from young Lebron’s example of a what a true team player, captain and leader is. It is to make your team play better together. If he has no confidence in his teammates, why should they work hard to move without the ball when he’s going to jack it up anyway? As long as he plays like a selfish primadona, he will never be among the elite point guards in this league.”
I couldn’t agree more and watching Lebron play last night the same thoughts registered in my mind. The much younger Lebron is so talented he could look to score every time, but he chooses to involve his teammates and elevate their games. The veteran BD should learn from the youngster. If BD wants to reach superstar status he must make those around him better and be less selfish. It’s totally up to him.
Don’t fret over the Warriors 0-4 start. The Mavs started 0-4 last season and look how their season turned out…Oh yeah, they got ousted in the 1st friggin round by the Warriors. Personally, I am n-e-r-v-o-u-s for Thursday night. Please, Please, Please, BE NICE to our MVP !!!
We’re more nervous, actually.
Except in a confident sort of way, naturally.
If we ask nicely, can we abuse your MVP just a little bit, so that we may stoke our soul-will-fire? We’ve seemed to have lost it somewhere deep in the Wasatch y’know? We’d like it back, please.
If we want someone who is a ball hog…let’s trade Baron for Kobe.
Seeing both LeBron and Baron on the court at the same time, it was clear how much LBJ is so much better and more effective than DB.
Now LeBron makes $13M/year, and Baron wants $17M/year. You see the problem? In the era of salary cap and luxury tax, the art of GMing is all about getting the most for your money.
If the Warriors fill up their salary cap with big salaries to BD, Jax, Harrington, and next year Monta and Biedrins, then where will they have the money the get the players that will carry them beyond their current mediocracy?
Baron is playing tired and frankly his body is “older” than his 28 years because of previous injuries. He can’t compete head to head with the young studs for long periods anymore. He has to pick his spots and get more rest than he’s getting.
Anyway tomorrow’s game is on national TV so I expect Baron to be ready. He loves the limelight. Expect lots of drama. Wouldn’t be surprised if his 3 point touch comes back.
Without Jax, I’m curious to see what Nellie will concoct to defend against Dirk.
They need to keep the score close to keep the crowd going. The team feeds off that energy so we gotta bring it on tomorrow. Let’s make lots of noise!
The primary advantage of the W’s is their depth. We don’t have any dominant or all star caliber players, possibly with the exception of BD, but we do have a group of talented young and veteran players that we have speculated could go 12 deep. So why is our rotation so limited, with just 7 players getting most of the minutes? Doesn’t seem like we are using what we have = depth.
Valr, you are so right about Baron “…playing tired and frankly his body is ‘older’ than his 28 years because of previous injuries.” I remember when he played for UCLA and had just completed a real demonstrative dunk. When he landed, I believe he seriously injured his hip or leg and was out for a long time. The ravages of Father Time does catch up fast when you show off too much in your youth. Right now it would be best if BD (Big Dog) uses his experience to lead, guide, nurture, feed, and groom the younger horses to race as a team on this Warrior’s chariot. It takes focus, desire, passion, and endurance to be the ultimate champion.
Fight on Dubs!
Can you image the warriors lead by the body of Baron Davis and the head of Jackson? Perhaps is that BD is leading the warriors without Jackson’s head which might explain our situation 0-4. Nelson needs to figure it out fairly soon whose head will use against Dallas?
Go Warriors!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Body of Baron Davis +
Brain of Stephen Jackson =
Team core
The NBA welcomes all of its young fans.
I’d like to see Nellie try Brandan against Dirk a little bit tonight. Wright could use his long arms and speed to cover the reigning MVP. I’m not saying he’s going to shut him down but it’s not like Dirk will overpower Wright down low either. It would be a good test for the youngster and Nellie could teach him Dirk’s tendencies.
So if when Stephen jackson comes back and we get on a hot streak, would that make him our MVP? Or maybe it was JRich…
JRich and Aluminum Foyle aint doing so hot either unfortunately.
Mr Mully -
I was just about to say:
For those who have been keeping an eye on JRich and making sure to let us know when he is playing good but ignoring when he struggles…his line last night was pretty horrible:
4pts on 2 of 15 shooting, 5rbs, 2ast, 3stl, 5to and not even 1 free throw shot.
If we are going to have to hear about it every time he has a good/great game somebody needs to keep things in perspective.
general concern to share with the group.
if the dubs are having so much trouble maintaining the energy level to play “fast break” and they don’t have a viable half court offense to be competitive with…..
then what does that say about the rest of this season?
they absolutely should have run the Cavs off the floor the other night but the Cavs actually beat them at their own game. To quote another poster I “vomit in my mouth” when BD pounds the dribble by the 3 pt line and every one else is resting on the perimeter. this is not fast break basketball.
if we are having so much trouble creating our identity where do we go from here?
ID-r-US?
ChuckC,
I completely agree with you on your post # 57.
If the Ws played as such a frantic pace, then Nelson has to leverage the depth of the team. Playing with the short rotation is the fastest way to a disaster in a long season (injury, fatigue, etc…)
Obviously, Nelson is doing whatever it takes to win the current game and taking his eyes off the goal of the season. His justification for keeping BD in the game is because the Ws is in the game or have a chance of winning the game is beyond my comprehension. With BD history of hurting, he will not last long this season and that is not the way to show that you have confident in the rest of your players.
If you feel it coming up, go for the “technicolor yawn” and let it fly! I can’t imagine why you’d want to keep it in your mouth (do you swallow after?).
Frankly, the whole thing seems rather unappealing. If basketball has that impact on you, you shouldn’t watch. I can’t even imagine how wretched presidential debates must make you feel.
AndrewN and Chuck C,
Great points. I had compared our team to the Kentucky Wildcats of 1996 because of their depth, defensive potential, and perimeter shooters, and running game. But the team has not harnessed its energy and played enough reserves to make this happen. Since depth and athleticism is the team’s strength, Nellie should use it to his advantage. Set rotations the will maximize that advantage. Rely less on situational matchups and more on waging a war of blitzkrieg and relentless defense and attack. Of course, to do this the Dubs will need to board better like they did last Tuesday against Cleveland. But they also must open up the rotation and get guys like Marco and Wright more consistent minutes so they can become reliable contributors.
Too many guys are playing in one game and in street clothes the next, or they are playing a lot minutes one game, and only a few the next. Nellie must be frustrated having so many young guys and so many prospects that must go through hard knocks to get seasoned. But if he doesn’t set a clear rotation soon, the team will suffer through a season long identity crisis. It’ll be like an NFL team playing all season with a quarterback controversy. Only the QB controversy will be at more than just one position.
Andrew, Son,
Amen. The W’s have depth. We could go 12 deep, and run all day and all night. Instead we have BD going 40+ minutes, and multiple talented players, including our 2 first round picks, getting dnp or minimum minutes. This is the same problem I saw with Nelson in the playoffs, shortening his bench to the point where the 6-7 players that are trying to run the uptempo offense, get hurt or tired. Of they just start walking it up the court and play the 1/2 court game because they are just too worn out to continue the frantic pace. What’s the point of that?
We have guys on the bench that are not a significant drop off in talent from the starters. Why not use them? Go 10-12 deep every game, and push the tempo every minute of every game. Someone gets tired, bring in a sub. Make the other team go to its bench when its starters get tired. Force them to play our game, at our pace, for 48 minutes and see what happens.
We may not have a bunch of all stars, but we do have 10-12 guys that can run and play well in this system. We should be using them, and forcing the other team to play our style up tempo for 48 minutes, instead of having a short rotation which ends up with our tired and overplayed starters slowing things down when they get tired or hurt.
Nevin420 - Basketball is a game of height, possession and rebounding. A Davis/Jackson/Harrington/Wright/Biedrins lineup, gives you height, scoring, defense, rebounding, muscle, experience, athleticism and toughness. What’s not to like?? It’s all about having the ball more. The more you control it, the more you get to shoot it. The more you get to shoot it, no matter how bad the shooting percentage, eventually the numbers will add up. Pretty easy formula.
Agreed, Joel. Not sure why Nevin jumped all over you. All you are really suggesting is starting Wright to add height to the starting line-up. By the way, Barnett mentioned on NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/features/barnett_20071107.html) that Wright may be an answer to the Dubs rebounding woes. Here’s what he says:
I believe they might have the answer in Brandon Wright. He was acquired from Charlotte in the Jason Richardson trade. With only one year of college ball, he just turned 20. He is a skinny 6′10″ with a very long wingspan. I think he is a real sleeper who is going to get his chance. He is a quick learner and can simply make basketball plays for you … particularly at the defensive end. He is going to become a good shot blocker and I think he could be the answer to help solve the rebound ineptness. He may be the type of player that gets on the court and does so many good things in the flow of the game, that it’s hard to take him off. I like him and I think the Warriors need him to be able to play at a high level as soon as possible.
Are you listening, Nelson?
Free throws!
Preseason!
Joel,
Unfortunately, the muscle you alluded to in post 70 is at the PG, SG and SF positions. There’s little muscle in the PF and C positions, and that’s part of our problem.
I have consistently said that Harrington is better suited to SF than PF, so I like that move. Also like BD and Jacks. I think we all assumed, incorrectly, that the 8th pick in the draft at a positon where we don’t even have a true player (I don’t count Harrington) would be starting, so BW at PF seems to make sense. And AB.
Overall I like your lineup, except it leaves AZ out, and he deserves to be a starter based on his performance and potential too. I guess we could bring Az off the bench, at SG and SF and get him 30 minutes. Bring Monta in at PG, SG. Have a rotation where Harrington plays PF.
Again, too many good players sitting on the bench. What about Barnes, Bellienlli, Pietrus?
I guess I’d go with BD, Jacks, Harrington, BW, AB against the bigger teams and start AZ and sit BW against teams without as strong a combo at PF/C.
ChuckC:
I guess having too many “good” players, is a good thing. Unfortunately the good players are small. Nellie ball is entertaining and all, but it’s not championship basketball. If you recall the Celtics of the 80’s, they weren’t exceptionally fast, but man can they push the ball when necessary. Yet when need be, they had a frontline of Parrish 7 footer, McHale 6′11″, and Bird 6′9″. All able to post and rebound. Defensively, they weren’t special, but they sure did disrupt the shot with those long arms. I’ll take 2 guys who can score 20, and 3 who can do 15 but rebound and defend.