Holiday Rush (Warriors 105, Cavs 96)
The long NBA season is full of ups and downs. The best teams are able to moderate their highs and lows, leading to steady performances almost every night. The Warriors aren’t quite to that level yet, as recent losses to Detroit and New Jersey showed. But just because the Warriors haven’t made a leap to the top doesn’t mean they’re not making steady progress. In years past, a feeble loss on the road in the final minutes like the one against the Nets Saturday could have triggered a downward spiral. Guys are banged up and looking forward to closing out the trip, potentially leading to a Sunday night massacre against the Cavs. The Ws, fortunately, went the exact opposite direction. Putting the prior ugly game far behind them, the team finally came out with a strong first quarter. Cleveland never fully recovered. A 3-2 road trip after 13 games in 22 days? I’ll take it.
I’m of two minds as to the Warriors’ bounce back game against the Cavs. As I’ve said before, there are no bad road wins. The team played smart, efficient basketball to compensate for their banged up bodies. This could have been ugly for the Warriors, but they showed up with full effort. On the other hand, however, such a dominant game to close out a trip like this suggests that Saturday’s loss against the Nets really was a matter of poor effort and underestimating competition. The Warriors got cocky after pulling off easy wins with subpar performances. When they hit a veteran team in the Nets, they weren’t able to rely on the same tricks. It’s a good learning experience to have early in the season. Let’s hope it sticks.
Some random thoughts:
- Nelson’s faith in his bench is pretty much summed up by the 48 minutes played by an injured Baron Davis and Monta Ellis. If the Warriors had won Saturday, I suspect he would have found ways to get them to the bench. With the team needing a bounce-back win to seal a winning trip, however, Nelson wasn’t taking any chances. With two days rest prior to a home game against the NBA’s weakest squad, hopefully neither player will feel a hangover from the effort. Despite the heavy minutes, both guards played smart basketball games - getting to the basket when the Warriors needed points and finding ways to get others involved. When both Baron and Monta are clicking at close to full speed, there’s not a more entertaining team in the NBA.
- Harrington turned in a nice game after pretty much stinking up things Saturday in America’s garbage capital. Al still loses his man on rebounds more frequently than is ideal for a power forward, but he was hustling Sunday to tip balls, keep plays alive, and force the Cavs to deal with his speed. What he gave up in size to the Cavs’ front line he recovered in quickness and effort. Offensively, he didn’t force matters and was rewarded. Gone were some of the out of control moves from New Jersey. In their place were open looks from the outside and energy points scored around the basket. Al was feeling it early this week, but he needs to adjust when all the shots aren’t falling. He did an excellent job finding his place in the team offense against the Cavs.
- Need a cure for a shooting slump? Hyperextend your knee. It worked for Stephen Jackson. Maybe Nelson can test it next on Marco. Jackson had been struggling from the field the entire road trip but finally found his touch after being questionable for the game given the late injury in Jersey. There’s really no rhyme or reason to what Jackson did - he was simply hot from all over the court. It was nice to see him continue to work to get to the rim and the line, despite his success from outside. Those long-range shots are valuable because they open lanes to the basket. The Warriors succeeded in breaking open their lead against the Cavs because they didn’t settle into a one-dimensional offense.
Looking ahead, the Warriors have 8 games to go before they finally reach a softer stretch of the schedule. Minnesota at home should be a win. If they’re lucky, they’ll split the home and away series that follows against the Nuggets. They then face Houston and Dallas on the road, where two losses wouldn’t be a shock. The team returns home to face New Orleans and San Antonio, which hopefully will be a split if the Ws take New Orleans seriously. The 8 game stretch concludes against the smoking hot Blazers in Portland in what should be a really competitive game. When you add it all up, the Warriors should be happy walking away at 4-4 after running the gauntlet of Western playoff contenders. It could easily go much worse, however, if they don’t take each opponent seriously and play four consistent quarters of quality basketball. The team found ways to win against inferior opponents during the recent road trip. Now it’s time to see if they can have the same success against their peers and superiors.
A peaceful and safe holidays to everyone. Thanks for making the past year on this blog so much fun.
Great win, sometimes those 3’s are either all or nothing. But tonight’s game must be a record for fewest bench minutes when a team has a 28 point lead in the 2nd half. C’mon Nellie, thousands of us were screaming at you to use the bench! His assistants must think he has gone off the deep end and are just too afraid to challenge him.
four wins four losses in the next 8 is a reasonable analysis- it could be a lot better or a lot worse- very hard to judge with the Warriors. for the warriors to be better than last year means being almost as good a t home, and a lot better on the road. They are showing that they are a lot better on the road- still losign to a very good team- detroit and oacasionaly losign a game they should win (New Jersey- whcih woudl ahv eben almsot a guaranteed loss last year) I thinkthe home playing willpick up, tohugh they odn’;t ahve the eleemtn of surpirse with reallyu good treams they did last year. Stephen Jackson is a true all star, tohugh he wont get that notice for a coupel fo yessr, evne at best.
Adam,
How does Don Nelson send a message to his top players for a sub-par outing in NJ? Play them all night banged up or not. I swear I saw a gleam of dismay/acceptance in BD and Jax eyes late in the game. Great coaching!
Fantom,
Love the enthusiasm. But, man, spellcheck or lay off the eggnog. Happy Holidays!
The way Baron Davis was dominated by Kidd yesterday shows that he’s not at the level of elite point guards today.
Baron’s style is flashier, but he’s not as effective as Kidd. Kidd is the engine of his team. He’s everywhere. He does everything.
Both Baron and Kidd scored 15 points last night, but Kidd had 12 assists to Baron’s 3. What are point guards for?
Also, Kidd picked 11 rebounds, compared to Baron’s 2. Which helped the Nets in their 58-39 rebounds advantage. With 19 more rebounds, there are so many more possessions and opportunities to score.
While Baron’s swagger is fun, his over-confidence makes him careless with the ball. He turned the ball over 5 times last night, which is more than his 3 assists. Kidd on the other hand, had only 2 turnovers with his 12 assists. What a difference! No wonder everyone wants Kidd as the missing piece for their championship team.
Jim,
As a coach, when I want to send a message to players that aren’t putting out effort, I sit their butts on the bench. All players want PT. Playing them a whole game isn’t a punishment in any way. It’s a reward.
So the fact that Nelson played his starters the whole game was definitely not sending them any message, and it was far from genius.
Funny how some fans try every stretch of the imagination to make coach Nelson into a genius, whether it’s deserved or not. I think Nelson’s a great coach, in most respects, but I really think you’re reading in something that isn’t there.
This was simply coach Nelson coaching this game and every game as if it’s a do or die playoff game. Every game is a must win. With the players banged up, it shows the depth of Nelson’s stubbornness regarding playing his bench. He is afraid of his bench. Apparently that also extends to Az too.
Apparently he is going to ride those horses as fast and as far as he can until they pulls up lame and can’t run any more.
Happy Holidays to you as well, Adam, and to everyone who posts here. I’d like to echo Adam’s sentiments and thank him, The Merc, and all of you for keeping up a great blog and being a source of constant fun, stimulating discourse and debate, and Dubs camaraderie.
It looks like Nellie is playing BD and SJAX way too much, but perhaps he’s got a better handle on that than we amateurs think. I’d like to know what went on from the end of the Nets game until tipoff with the Cavs. What kind of treatment do these guys get in the process of taking care of ailments? What goes on psychologically to get the team ready to bounce back after a poor performance - probably Nellie’s forte. I imagine the Dubs (and other teams) spend alot on treating the injuries to these valuable “war horses”. Hyperextended knees and thigh contusions do not heal overnight, but perhaps with constant mild electric stimulation to the injured area, cold/heat, massage, etc. players like BD (younger than 30) can recover amazingly soon. It’s hard for me to think that Nellie is not aware of the potential of injury and the need to play his bench to avoid this and develop players, but he must think that the extra practice they do - getting ready in case they’re needed - is sufficient. Winning is what Nellie is about and as long as he is confident that he can get away with playing BD, etc. 48 minutes, he will do that. BD looked much less tired in the Cav’s game than he did after two days rest before the Nets game. With BD and SJAX, mental fatigue and boredom may be the problem more than the physical aspect. The season’s a marathon not a sprint! Go figure!
Finally, AB had sufficient minutes to keep the rebounding parity in tonight’s game. When he came out for a relatively short time, the Cavs controlled the boards entirely and Nellie put him back in quickly. Another great game both offensive and defensive by Monte!
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you all who read and/or post. This blog is a great addition to our enjoyment of the Dubs during this exciting season. I look forward to reading them after each exciting win and sometimes disappointing loss. Thanks for all the knowledge gained on this forum. Special thanks to Adam!
Nice road win for the Dubs tonight against a good team with one of the league’s true superstars. Adam’s point that the Dubs are making steady progress by winning road games (even if they’re not playing like an elite team yet) is well taken.
But…
Like DK (post #1), I was incredulous at Nellie’s refusal to go to the bench with a 20+ point lead in the 4th quarter. Pbob, if you’re reading this, this is the perfect example of Nellie pigheadedness that you were asking us to provide you. Served on a silver platter.
Nellie refuses to give his bench players the time they need to play and be a productive part of the team, even when there is no risk in doing so. Perhaps Nelson doesn’t want to be confronted with the fact that these young guys (POB and BW in particular) can play and help the team. This last point is hinted at in A GREAT ARTICLE referenced by Oldfan in the previous two threads. (Thank you Oldfan.) The article comes from SI.com. In the article, the author, Steve Aschburner, does a good job of describing Nellie’s unorthodox coaching style. As Oldfan points out, it’s not exactly a ringing endorsement of Nelson’s m.o. with big men. It’s a good read and it touches on what many of us have been saying about Nellie and his use of this year’s bigs. Nice to hear that one national writer sees it the same way. Here is the link:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/steve_aschburner/12/21/nelson/index.html
Son of Ahmed, you are putting your own agenda onto Aschburner’s article. Sounded to me like the idea was if Nelson did ever have a good big man to work wtih, he would do some interesting, unorthodox things with them. I watched the game tonight and I was feeling very anxious around 8:44. I would have liked Baron to sit, but the Warriors are not quite at the point where they can close a team out, especially at the end of a road trip. The game ended up with a 9-point win, when they had been holding at 20 for most of the night. And that was because of very sloppy, careless play in the last 8 minute.
It made me think that it’s a tough call these days in the NBA where teams can score so fast (especially the Dubs lol!) to take your best guys out with a big lead.
Happy holidays everyone! Go Dubs!
Walkerp,
I am not putting, as you say, my own agenda into Aschburner’s article. I’m merely pointing out that a lot of his material supports my take on the situation. It’s a good article and it seems to be written with journalistic integrity. He questions Nellie’s methods and he offers the devil’s advocate view as well.
The title alone seems to be asking the same questions some of us have been asking:
“Caution: Genius at work: But is Nelson too clever for his teams’ own good?”
Those of us critical of Nelson’s usage of bigs and love of small ball have made some of the very same observations that Aschburner makes in the article. These include:
“He remains a devotee of “small ball,” to the point that his three shortest players in any given game might, for long stretches, be instructed to man frontcourt positions. He’s the guy who encouraged 7-foot-6 Manute Bol to launch three-pointers for Golden State, the same guy who posted up stocky point guard Tim Hardaway and probably wished he could have tried it with Spud Webb or Muggsy Bogues.”
“Nelson always has been fascinated with “bigs,” but rarely the traditional or All-Star variety. Instead, he has gone for the likes of Bol, Chris Anstey, Shawn Bradley, Wang Zhizhi or Dirk Nowitzki, arguably the league’s ultimate perimeter 7-footer. Give him a low-post, back-to-the-basket, old-fashioned pivot man, though, and you’d almost expect Nellie to get bored.”
“He is more inclined to have a bastard roster,” said Minnesota coach Randy Wittman, who has played or coached against Nelson for 25 years. “Maybe one big somewhere. But a guy like Adonal Foyle never played [much] for him. Those kinds of players, he would rather not have.”
“Some around the league suspect that Nelson, who has an ego at least as sizeable as any of his peers, would miss his reputation as a crafty innovator if he were able to (forced to?) play with an orthodox roster. A team with all the proper pieces would not lend itself to tinkering, much less wholesale gimmickry. Also — and Dallas owner Mark Cuban has wondered aloud about this, in regards to his former coach and general manager — a strong squad built around a reliable, All-Star-caliber center would face lofty expectations and thus, pressure to win.”
So, no, I’m not “putting my agenda on Aschburner.” But his observations certainly support my take.
A win! While I’ll take it, I am supremely worried about how the hard minutes are going to affect our players.
I was rooting for Wright and Belly around the 28 point lead…
Happy Holidays to all!! Let’s all have a great fantastic Christmas!
He’s just coaching the 21st Century game - there aren’t many true centers or true power forwards around anymore/ He’d jump at one if he could get one - as long as he could run the floor. He’s not going to jump at a Zach Randolph.
Look at what we had and where we are now. Did he get rid of any gems?
Did you want to hold onto Josh Powell or Ike Diogu?
For proof that Nellie is riding his guys too hard check here:
http://www.nba.com/warriors/news/recap_122307.html
Read the interviews and it sort of seems that Nellie is riding them hard, waitin for them to drop dead. Both BD and SJ are hurt to a degree where their game status is questioned. At one point BD said that Nellie told him to take the night off in New Jersey but BD was still in that game! If Nellie was already resigned to BD playing competitively he should have sat him right then!
And for all those wanting to knock on Nellie, he even says he doesn’t know anything.
WHAT IS UP WITH THE Ws FT%?!?!??! 88$!?!?!
I’m starting to get scared…
Missed today’s game - did the Ws win playing at their frantic pace, or at Cleveland’s pace? I’m suspecting it was the latter, given that some of the guys logged 48 minutes and surely needed to pace themselves.
Nice to open ESPN.com and see this win - this team is full of surprises.
Wishing everyone here a blessed holiday season and all good things for the new year!
Moncrief has done a superb job with the team’s free throw shooting. I hope he’s already working on their jumpshots too esp. BW and MB.
Good bounce back win. This was a must win tonight after the one that got away last night. That’s why the starting 5 played too much. Nellie was taking no chances.
I agree with him because the race is too tight in the West. There really is no time for rest or for taking it easy. The team must come prepared and focused EVERY NIGHT.
I agree with the SI writer. I was the one who first said that AB isn’t really a Nelson system player, because he has no perimeter game. AB is a concession to the need for rebounding and interior defense that coach Nelson makes, but as we’ve seen he seems happier to play AH at Center and have 5 guys with strong perimeter games.
AB rarely gets the ball down low, and I don’t know if there are any plays designed to get him the ball in the low post. It doesn’t seem like there are from the way we play.
Honestly, I think coach Nelson has a problem. He’s going to continue to coach every game as if it was a 7th game playoff game, win at all costs, play guys that are injured, shorten the bench to the 5 or 6 best players. Totally short term focused and imo short sighted.
Also, I’m starting to think he doesn’t know how to incorporate big men into his system that prefer to play in the low post. If they are 7 ft tall and can shoot the 3, he knows what to do with them. Otherwise, I’m starting to think his system doesn’t really take advantage of good low post players. I honestly think AB could score more if he got the ball more. And that he could draw fouls on the other teams bigs, they way they draw them on him, if he got the ball down low more often.
What can we do? It’s an exciting system because it isn’t slowed down by typical low post play. And we’re winning. But we’re not doing a good job of incorporating our bigs, and we’re not doing a good job of developing our three 1st round picks. I guess you can’t have everything.
NELLI THANK YOU FOR NOT PLAYING MATT BARNES TODAY EARLY IN THE GAME, THAT GUY IS MAKING ME CRAZY!!!! TOO MANY TURNOVERS AND NOT TOO MUCH OFFENSE. I DONT CARE WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE THINKS I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THAT GUY EARLY IN THE GAME. LET HIM PLAY GARBAGE TIME LIKE THIS GAME AGAINST THE CAVS.
ALL CAPS IS ANNOYING.
See, isn’t this better?
I read the SI article and the post game quotes. Sounds like more than a few people are stretching things to match their own agenda’s.
Nellie is well known for using self deprecating humor. Jey, you’re way out there if you’re taking his “Shows you what I know. Not(h)ing, I know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.”, comment as proof that Nelson is a coach with no idea on how to manage minutes. Nellie is famous for being a BS artist, including his infamous concession speech last year, which coincidently sparked the Dubs run to the playoffs. He later admitted it was all just a motivational tactic.
The SI piece isn’t much better. It establishes he’s never had a big man and the one quality big man he did have, Bob Lanier, he loved! That’s not exactly proving the premise. After that it’s all a bunch of conjecture sewn together to support the premise. Statement like “You’d almost expect”, “seems to be down”, “Some around the league suspect”, “That raises the question” are the kind of assumptions that allows the author, and apparently some easily hoodwinked readers, to make the kinds of logical leap where Nelson not being in love with Adonal Foyle’s admittedly limited game can be used as evidence that Nelson must not want a dominate big man like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar or Hakeem Olajuwon.
It may be Christmas, but even the water walker isn’t making that kind of leap of faith. It can’t be “proven” that Nelson doesn’t know how or want to use a great big man because, with the exception of Lanier, he’s never really had one to take advantage of for that long. Anything else is pure speculation; no matter well you dress up the inferences. The point’s been made before but I couldn’t say it any better than Nellie:
“You can do incredible things with a good center. It makes everybody’s game so easy,” he said. “It’s not that difficult to throw the ball inside, if you have somebody who can do something with it. It’s when you don’t, that’s the problem.”
Considering what a BS artist he is, he must have been…pulling our leg?
Happy Holidays gang! I’m sure we’ll find more things to disagree about after the holidays. Until then, enjoy your special time with family and friends. I just finished wrapping my last present and I can’t wait to see all the happy faces.
Go Warriors!!!
What an indictment! Nelson plays as if every game is a playoff game. THAT IDIOT!….. Why should he be trying so hard for just an ordinary games.
I’m willing to cut the guy some slack to do what he feels he needs to do to win. Before Nelson came back to save us, it had to have been at least a dozen years since we even “sniffed” at a winning record let alone the playoffs (Jim Mora’s “Playoffs?” rant is ringing in my head), and now that we’re winning it’s not good enough for some fans that “know better” than Nelson because they’re so darned smart.
We’ve had a lot of smart coaches before. Do I need to even remind you of all those smart coaches? Lanier, Adelman, Carlesemo, St. Jean, Cowens, Winters, Musselman, Montgomery (Hey Montgomery coached at Stanford………he had to have been smart) Do you guys want some more of that? Well, one thing I’ll give you is that the list of former Warriors coaches is a much larger rotation than Nelly seems to feel the need to play. I’m concerned about the playing time a little as well, but have put my faith in Nelson. Did anyone think that perhaps he realizes he has a couple of days off and then is playing an inferior team? I think he IS pacing them, but perhaps not enough to the liking of some. Nelson for King…. I kinda like the sound of that.
I’ll take Nelly’s unconventional roster than Dunleavy at my #3 and Murphy and Diogu at #4. For those of you still under the misguided notion that the trade with Indiana was a bad thing, I’ve heard Indiana has charged Nelson with larceny.
I like the SI’s article on Nellie. It is not a knock on Nellie not wanting to go big. It is a love poem to his creativity. Interpreting that article as a knock on Nellie is another example of seeing the full glass - half empty.
Nellie is going a great job! The team loves him! The chemistry is great. We are winning and playing exciting ball! The win against the Cavs was fantastic! Great D.
Hey! Monta’s growing chin hair!
We have better things yet to come from the Warriors!
Even when they were up by 23 last night, I had the feeling that a Cav’s run was coming. The overuse of BD and Jax last night had its merits but when it came time to hit an open look late in the game, the legs weren’t there for either. I’m not going to second guess Nellie’s decisions, but I understand them. Every game counts, period. Meantime, we are winning and that counts as well.
What also counts is that you all have a happy holiday and thanks again to all for sharing your thoughts.
Nellie, learn to rest your starters! Even if you have the next two days off, tired players get injured more often. 48 minutes for Baron is a failure of coaching. If we lose Jackson or Baron to injury the W’s season could be over. If you have 28 point lead, pull your starters! Put (rested starters) back if the lead is reduced too rapidly.
Why, why were Baron and Jackson in at the end? Yes Cleveland cut the lead, but a 24 pt lead to start the quarter and you don’t feel comfortable resting starters? Let Ellis run point, Kellena 2 guard, Bradon Wright for Jackson. If the lead is cut too fast then substitute starters back in.
A win covers errors, but if Baron or Jackson go down in the 4th Q. You win game and lose the season.
In support of Nelly playing Baron & Jax so many minutes when they are banged up… Some types of leg injuries feel worse when you sit on the bench for a while and get cold. By both playing a lot of minutes they kept their legs warm and active. This may have been the best way to maximize both players contribution at Cleveland.
Here’s a few points I wanted to make:
1) Playing Baron and Jackson 40 minutes a night is critical for the team’s success. This team is one of the top 5 youngest teams in the league, and Baron & Jack are the only 2 players on this team who are capable of leading the team for long stretches. Plus with Baron making $200,847/game and Jackson making $80,853–there should be no excuse being in condition to play 40+ minutes (when you’re in your prime in your late 20’s) a night when their per game salary hinders the team from acquiring a more well balance experienced team. Baron is overpaid while Jack is reasonable.
2) Kidd always gets up to play his hometown team. I would guess that he’s had more triple doubles against us than any other team in the league. If you watched all his games, he doesn’t play like this all the time, especially at his current age of 35. Could this team be better with a younger Kidd? Absolutely yes with all the scorers the dubs have.
food for thought…
with the Dubs up 20+ points in the second half, a fresh rotation off the bench might have been able to maintain the lead.
however, we’ll never know because Nellie decided not to use the bench. Even if the bench players did start losing some of the lead and the momentum started shifting, then Nellie could’ve reinserted his “rested” starters to close out the game strong. The argument that the starters were needed because the Cavs were catching up is invalid because the starters were “tired” and or “injured” thus causing the lead to dwindle.
Also, for those who insist that Nellie would take a conventional center if one was avaialble, why did he fail so miserably in New York, only lasting one season, and trying to trade Patrick Ewing in the process?
It is blatantly obvious that Nellie does not value true “5’s”.
I think I understand where Nelson’s desperation is coming from……have you checked the standings lately? The Lakers, New Orleans, and Portland are all playing EXTREMELY well and are showing no signs of letting up. Denver has almost the same record as us and you can guarantee they will be there at the end. Any stretch of bad play by us and we’re in big trouble. Nelson knows a repeat of last year is improbable at best. He is doing all he can to make sure that the Warriors don’t fall into the same hole they fell in last year.
I don’t blame him for being so paranoid about his bench players blowing big leads. For the most part they’ve played awful. I’d much rather have a win, than garbage PT for Belinelli who isn’t going get out of his suit for us anyway when the playoffs come around. (Assuming we even get there…) Also, I don’t think he’d have left the starters out as long if they didn’t have two days off coming up.
Finally, y’all need to just sit back and relax and enjoy a basketball team that can win games on a consistent basis. I would have thought that alone would be enough to pacify most of you!
Bruceam,
Yes, there is a difference between coaching playoff games and regular season. The pace is different, the intensity is different. The strategy for players is different. The coaching is different. It’s the difference between coaching to win every game, and having a plan that includes player development and other objectives over the course of a very long season.
Some examples:
During the regular season, coaches will get young players they want to develop some PT. Other coaches will do that, not this one. But most coaches do that during the regular season. They hope they are ready to contribute in the playoffs, but if not they don’t get much PT.
During the regular season, coaches will rest players that have minor injuries, or play them fewer minutes, so they don’t aggravate the injuries which would cause that player to be out for a long stretch of games. During the playoffs, it’s more likely players will play with minor injuries because there isn’t a long season ahead of them to be concerned about
Can this team afford to lose BD and Jacks? Would it be a fair trade to win a game in Cleveland and risk losing one or both of them for a long stretch of the season?
Can this team afford not to develop its young talent by giving them a few minutes of PT in games? Up by 20 points in a regular season game, many coaches will give one or more young players some PT and pull them in a few minutes (not 74 seconds) if things don’t go well. Less likely they get PT in the playoffs if they aren’t starters and haven’t developed enough during the season.
Happy Holidays to all.
Thanks Adam and the other W fans for making this a great place to discuss the W’s with other fans. This is definitely the best blog on the internet.
Folks,just a reminder;(hopefully those of you who were around for the pre-and-post Nelson era before don’t need it)we are fortunate enough to have one of the few coaches in all of sports that has shown the ability time after time to turn sputtering teams into winners.He is not perfect and makes mistakes just like every other coach does.However,right now (considering where the Warriors were before his return, and the players he currently has to work with) their is not a better coach in the league to help us develop into a quality team.He won’t be around forever, so try to remember and appreciate what he’s done for W’s since his return, and hope that when he does “Hang em Up” things don’t go back to where they ended-up last time he left! Happy Holidays!
As long as everyone manages to stay healthy through the next eight games, it looks like the schedule will lighten up enough for more minutes to be thrown around to the bench guys. When a team plays this many games in this number of days, when exactly are they supposed to work new guys in during practice? Sure, those guys ought to be there by now, but if they’re not, I’d rather the W’s took their best shot at winning games. You don’t want to throw away victories in the interest of keeping fresh legs.
Brian, Patrick Ewing was a shell of himself by the time Nelson got to New York. He wasn’t a willing passer and chose to not challenge shots and protect the lane on defense, so he could stay in the game to get more shots on offense. He’s an amazingly selfish player. Do yourself a favor and look up Ewing’s statistics for that year and check a few articles from New York papers from that time. Nellie is killed in the papers but there was a ton of criticism for the home town HOF center as well. That relationship deteriorated in large part because Ewing was flat out unwilling to expand his game beyond shooting his fall away jumper from ten feet out. In that context, Ewing fails the litmus test as a legit elite big man.
JP,
Re: “I read the SI article and the post game quotes. Sounds like more than a few people are stretching things to match their own agenda’s.”
No agenda here. Not enough clout to have one. Just a lifelong Warrior Worrier with an opinion.
Stretching things? My goodness! If you read the article, its title, and the excerpts provided in post 12, it would take a really strong rose colored lens to not see how Nellie’s usage of bigs is being questioned in that article.
If you disagree with article and assert that its all conjecture, fine. That very disagreement has been fodder for many fun debates. But it is insulting and simply illogical to say those of who see it the same way as Aschburner are “hoodwinked” by his article. Hell, we’ve been seeing it Aschburner’s way LONG before this article came out. He hasn’t revealed anything in the article that hasn’t been observed on this blog in the past six months.
Despite of my suspicion of Nellis handling of AB minutes this year, I have to admit that Nellie is doing his best coaching job ever. Nellie is able to mold some rejects into a cohesive unit and they are playing at high level.
Davis is a coach killer
Jackson is a troublemaker/brawler
Barnes is nobody
etc….
Nellie had 3 all star players in Dallas so it was not too difficult to win there. But here in Oaktown, the Ws is employing rejects, castoffs, undesized guards, skinny center. Somehow, Nellie is able to make it work.
It is his best coaching job ever.
I think his approach have definitely been counterproductive when we’ve had 20 point leads. Just like in another game(wolves?) with a 20 point lead the same thing happens. He leaves the starters in and they are fatigued, they end up chucking 3 pointers that clank off the rim. The other team comes back in the game and then we make a late push because the other team just sucks. He needs to put the subs in, the starters are losing the lead anyway. If they lost the lead but are rested they can come back and finish off. We’ve only been fortunate because we’ve played bad teams. I definitely think we got worn out by the Nets. Injuries are definitely gonna happen with the minutes he’s playing these guys.
All the doom and gloom after the New Jersey loss shows that most fans don’t realize how inconsistent teams are from one game to the next. Probably San Antonio fans didn’t overreact when they lost last week to Memphis, and probably Phoenix fans didn’t overreact when they lost to Minnesota earlier this year, because those teams have longer track records than the Warriors. But all teams have cold nights and hot nights, and we shouldn’t read too much into one loss. If it’s a trend, yes, but that’s not really the case with the Warriors. The important thing is that our guys are a confident team, and Nelson didn’t have to do much to make them put out a huge effort against Lebron and the Cavs - because the players themselves felt that the loss to the Nets was unacceptable.
By the way, I’m not sure that playing Baron so much ensures that he will get injured. It’s just that every minute he plays exposes him to risk, and playing him 3000 minutes this season (36 min per game) means that his risk is half again as much as if he played 2000 minutes (24 minutes per game). But luck plays a big part, of course, and hopefully Baron has figured out ways to minimize the risks this season - because in a contract year he’s determined to disprove the idea that he’s fragile.
Do we know for sure that POB doesn’t have what it takes to develop into a good Center, if not a great one? I think he has as much potential as some of the 2nd rate big men the W’s have faced having career nights against the W’s.
POB looked good to me almost every time I saw him get a few minutes, nice hook, blocks shots, gets rebounds, nice shot from a few feet out. Yes, one awful 74 seconds and not a fit for Nelsons up tempo style, but neither is AB really.
All those that say Nelson hasn’t had a great Center or PF. What team is going to give you one of those in their prime? You usually draft and develop those. No one is giving them away before the end of their careers. If coach Nelson won’t develop one, and other teams won’t give them up, then the only way coach Nelson can get one is to get hired as the coach of a team that already has one. So perhaps Nelsons lack of a quality big man is more his fault if he’s unwilling to both draft and develop one, or if his system doesn’t really work with low post players.
Right now I see two big men with potential on the W’s roster, POB and BW, and I have seen no plan by the coach or W’s management to develop them with even a few minutes of PT each game, or even every other game, even though this team is desparate for rebounding. I also don’t see a PT plan in place for Bell either.
I also don’t see any plays run for our current starting big man AB, so I don’t see him being developed fully either as far as helping him learn to score in the low post by giving him opportunities to try it in games. If you were a quality big man, would you even want to come to this coach and this offense?
Don’t forget the W’s had Webber, in his prime. That didn’t turn out well.
Finally, let me say once again I am thrilled to have coach Nelson as the coach of the W’s. He brought excitement back to basketball, and I hope they resign him to a long term contract. He is a great coach imo. I don’t want my criticism of the few areas where I think he could do better (developing young players with PT, managing minutes for starters, expanding the rotation, and effectively using bigs in his system) to overshadow my admiration for him and my gratitude for what he has done for the W’s and their fans.
Because I am debating the point with other posters, it may appear that I am overly critical of Nelson or Mullin or not a great fan of the W’s. That’s not the case. I enjoy discussing these issues with other knowledgeable posters but I am 100% a W fan and happy in general with the direction of the team.
POB = Damp II
Nuff said.
Without nelson this would be an empty blog- nothing to do but complain about Cohan and coaches 9 and 10 since the playoffs, He has converted Jackson from negative to near all-star and Baron to positive voice and in-game savior. He does play players too much, with all his creativity he could find a bit more for Biedrins in terms of plays and ways for BW to have an impact, maybe even POB. He has given Bellinelli a chance- several- but its hard to find a spot for a player to regain a lost confidence. And certainly as of yet Bellinelli hasn’t taken the opportunity- but needs to because we need to replace Hudson with a ball handler.
PS- sorry about the spellcheck ,Jim, I hit the wrong button and there it was- embarrassing.
First, Happy Holidays to all. It seems that Nelson is coaching as this is his last year with the Warriors. Jack, Baron, and Al believe that they will not have a better opportunity than this year. Who will allow them to play that free as Nelson allows them to do it? Who will pay as much as they are getting now? Or even better who might pay even more for them than the Warriors?
Obviously, this is madness but it is something well understood. The role players are exceptional great and are part of this concert. AB and ME are playing very well and placing great statistics without overtaking the leaders. KA is also playing very well with the limiting minutes that are given to him.
The success of the team is chemistry that they show. They play as Baron and Jack dictates and Barnes enforces so that everyone follows the plays. When the ego of Baron and Jack takes over them they screw up the team. When they decide to play defense, be more to the service of the others, and willing to share the glory then we sees a magical Warriors team.
Nelson is fully responsible as well as the core players that the rotation is limiting to 7 or 8 players. None of them trust the youngsters yet. The youngsters are not up to speed yet and they are still in the learning process. The worst part is that Nelson does not want to risk PT for the youngsters because 1) the western conference is composed by pretty good teams, 2) he is not sure that the Warriors’ team is good enough to sustain, 3) he is not a risk taker.
Nelson will use the youngster when he does not have any other option. I hope I am wrong but I will be very surprise if after Christmas he starts to use the youngsters to decrease PT on the core group.
Meanwhile, let us enjoy these moments and learn to live day by day as Nelson and his team doing it now.
Perhaps, Nelson will start to play the youngster when Baron and Jack surrender to Nelson and acknowledged that they can not sustain that many minutes of playing time. I just hope that this time occurs soon and Nelson does not take as time to do trades which are probably what they might be afraid to occur.
If Nelson is smart enough, he will use his geniality and start to generate playing time for the youngsters which for us will be a blessing but for them it might be pretty hard to fulfill Nelson’s expectations.
Alberto
Nellie is “not a risk taker”? Are we watching the same team? If you have MP you have to be a risk taker, putting him in a game is like rolling dice. Shooting 30 3s a game,playing AH against Yao,giving Jax another chance, etc. Who then do you consider a risk taker?
Latrell, I agree with your point. I really laugh withe example of rolling the dice. Thank you, that was my christmas present.
It was an error on my part. I should have better say that: he is not a patient teacher/developer. He is under the believe that during the war he can not train his pupils. They just will be killed and he can not protect them in the war because he might kill too.
I missed the game as I am traveling so any insight on the following would be appreciated:
* Per the game recap, the Warriors led 73-54 at one point.
* Per the box score, the team went 8 deep but really only played 6 and all starters played more than 36 minutes.
* None of the players in need of development got playing time.
* As the Warriors were outscored 29-14 in the 4th quarter and the team was coming off a back-to-back, couldn’t the devolping players have gotten smoked just as badly as the starters that played to close out the game? Given that players were tired, could the younger player have actually played better while logging some much needed minutes?
I definitely fall into camp with Chuck C. regarding player development and minutes. Agree that Nelson is a tremendous veteran coach but his weakness seems glaring when it comes to developing players (especially as the NBA gets younger and 20 year olds on rosters are now a regular occurance). Am surprised that the we seem to be in such as small minority on this point as, while I love the winning as much as any fan, I really have to question how long it can be sustained given the wear and tear of huge minutes on key players every night.
JUSKPUKED- ALL CAPS IS KOOL!!! JK I HAVE A SMALL SCREEN SO WITH CAPS I CAN SEE BETTER.
#42. You said POB is Dampier. Nuff said.
Except Dampier gets lots of PT in Dallas, over 30 mpg in the past 3 games on a very strong team, and was a starter with the W’s.
So if POB is Damp, and I understand you mean that as an insult to POB, then why can’t POB get 5 minutes a game when a player he is supposedly equal to gets 30mpg?
IF POB = Dampier, then POB should be getting 30 mpg. Dampier has averaged over 25 mpg over his career.
Personally, I think POB has more potential than Dampier, and will turn out to be a better Center in this league than Dampier will ever be.
Even your attempt to dismiss POB by comparing him to Dampier, who we all would agree is just another average Center, shows the problem that big men have gettting PT under coach Nelson. Even an avg Center like Dampier can get 20-30 mpg on a playoff team. POB can’t get 5 minutes per month. What does that tell you about Nelson and how he works with big men?
To #40,
The risk of injuries is more than a linear product of playing time. Statistically, it’s higher for players who play more per game and are tired at the game and on a game-to-game basis, for two main reasons:
* When players are tired their mental sharpness wanes, and they’re more prone to erroneous judgment calls that jeopardize their body.
* When players are tired their body is weakened, the ligaments are more vulnerable to tears, and the tired muscles not able to compensate for the continuous stress on the ligaments.
Therefore, playing 36 minutes a game, the chances for injury are more than 50% higher than playing a 24-minute game, because the extra minutes are more detrimental to player’s health both in that game, and in general, due to the cumulative weakening effect on the body.
Look at the high injury-rate of players who participate in summer activities, such as Olympic and national teams games. Without the long summer rest, many of them get injured during the following season.
Lots of smart basketball minds on this site. The nation sleeps on the Bay Area, but there are some serious sports fans here!
Merry xmas and happy holidays everyone.
Cavs suck. Cavs are now not a playoff team. Nets are.
Warriors beat the Lakers at home, lost in LA. 7 game series? Nope.
Beat Spurs without Duncan. With? In the playoffs? Nope.
Warriors suck when the competition is good.
End of story. Phoenix game was a long time ago.
Thankfully, it’s only the preseason.
Craigers, thanks for condescending to everyone who isn’t sold on the Warriors as contenders with two thick paragraphs of punchless fluff sans relevant insight or hint of clue.
Be sure to buy your t-shirt early.
Fantom, my comments are all in fun, and your thoughts on Nellie are right on the mark. If he could only develop Beans, POB and BW!
ChuckC, loved your analysis of Nellie’s handling of the bigs, particularly Patty O’B. And my earlier comments on Nellie’s playing BD and Jax as punishment were tongue-and-check, hard to convey on a blog!
Cohan, I know what you mean! What a bunch of Loos-hers!
Only 16-6 - since they went 0-6 at the beginning of the season, No drive - no zip, nada!
What a maroon!
Merry Christmas!
http://tinyurl.com/2fkhcr
Jax is my guy!
Brain Surgeon: whatever your alter ego is, stick to it.
Because you’re sounding like the Warriors PR team right now and this is a fan blog, not propaganda.
Pull yer head out.
Chris Cohen
It’s always good reading your contributions and insights. They always bring Warriors fans back to reality through your unique analyses or by your personal attacks on contributers here. Your latest contribution presents your usual unique view of the basketball world.
“Cavs suck. Cavs are now not a playoff team. Nets are.”
You are correct: the Cavs wallow at 12-16, whereas the blistering Nets are 12-15.
“Warriors beat the Lakers at home, lost in LA”.
Point? Aren’t they supposed to win at home. If they get home court advantage in a 7 game series……..
“Beat Spurs without Duncan. With?
Guess you forgot that before the Dubs beat them at Oracle, they had won 5 in a row without Duncan, including LA in LA.
“Warriors suck when the competition is good. End of story”.
In looking at the 21 games the Dubs have played since Jackson returned, 10 have been against teams with .500 records or above. Of those 10 games, they are 5-5; however, 3-1 at home and 2-4 on the road. Also, you have overlooked the fact that of those 21 games since Jackson returned, 14 have been on the road. To have gone 15-6 in that span is quite a difference from last year’s team.
However, your point is well taken: this is not an elite team until they can beat teams that present with a big front line (look what Jefferson did to them in New Jersey), but it’s still an impressive performance to date.
Continue your great posts as they always serve as a reality check, but please get your facts right.
Merry Christmas
Dear Santa,
all I want for christmas is more playing time for the rest of the players on my favorite team so that the starters who are paid millions of dollars can perform at an elite level in the playoffs.
i would also like for don nelson to be revered as a genius for realizing that there are 15 players allowed on a team and any should be able to contribute for stretches because the fact is he recruited them to sit on his bench which means that they are professionals (exception goes to Pietrus, who they couldn’t even trade this summer when they tried).
p.s. i am very thankful for this great run that the Dubs have been on since jax returned and I am enjoying the roller coaster ride throughout the 2007 - 2008 season. thank you for allowing the team to play so inconsistently that i get to blister the board with pessimism and optimism in equal amounts.
p.s.s. monta ellis is the bomb and i was wrong when i said that his will was broken in the playoffs last year.
I just hope Andris, Wright, and Bellinelli get cut loose so they can play for a team that understands what they bring to the team. AB would be crazy to resign with GS after this year.
May the joy and peace of Christmas be with you all today and through the new year!
Merry Christmas!! Hopefully our rookies get some playing time as a Christmas gift!
Found it interesting that the SI Article did not mention Nelson’s most promising young big man, Chris Webber… did I miss it?
A few thought on PT and the bench:
It is crutial that Nellie find a way to mix in his bench, especially Buke. Even a few more minutes (late 2nd, mid-3rd) for POB Wright, and Belli on a consistent basis might give them “role” clarity and inspire some game experience and confidence.
PoB has shown flashes he can play, but hasn’t had much reward from what we see. Wright and Belli often look lost and over matched, but how can you get it right, if you get yanked every time you make a mistake.
Buke reminds me of the Great Andrew Toney, with a mix of Mitch Richmond. Great first step, tough at the rim, rebounds. IMHO - He should be getting more looks and minutes.
If these bench players don’t cut it, then other role players need to be brought in. Any winning playoff team has those those intangible role players to come in with energy, spell the starters or sway momentum.
This is a great fan blog - enjoy all of your enthusiasm and insights.Look forward to more in the new year.
PassionMan, I agree with you that it’s likely that injury rates strictly speaking are not linearly related to playing minutes and almost added a paragraph to that effect originally. However, I’m not sure that it’s so clearcut, and I doubt that you’re certain either, unless you can show me some statistics to back it up - which I doubt exist. Common sense, maybe, but on the other hand the tireder a player gets, the less likely he is to drive to the basket, which is where injuries are most common. Remember how common injuries are in preseason? And when you land on another player’s foot and sprain your ankle, your ligaments don’t care how tired you are, it’s all related to the stresses of that particular landing. My point is simply that the fact that Baron is playing more minutes this year is no guarantee that he will miss more playing time than if his minutes were less. Just gotta get lucky.
After watching some of tonight’s Lakers vs Suns game, I got to wondering how the Dubs would compare record wise with the second place Lakers - IF SJAX had been available from the “get-go”. I realize that this analysis is based on pure hypothetical, but what the heck, it’s fun to speculate and appreciate how well our team has done so far in comparison.
First I made the assumption that we won one of the Utah games- let’s take the first game of the season since we did beat them at home in the playoffs last year. Next, I assumed that with SJAX, we would not have been so lethargic on defense in L.A. and would have won that game with the Clippers. Next, we should have beaten the Cavs at home (a fairly close game) - especially given how dominant we were in Cleveland this week against them. I gave Dallas the win at Oracle even with SJax present - just to be fair and not be too biased. We should have won the Detroit game at Oracle IMO so I put that in the win column. We won the second game against the Clippers which was the last game without SJax. At this point the Dubs record would be 5 wins 2 losses. The rest of the won-loss record was accurately tallied to give the Dubs a record at this point of 20 wins 9 losses. Not bad considering the Laker’s record is 18-10 now after today’s game and the Suns are 19-9. The Dubs hypothetical record with SJax playing from the start would put the Dubs AHEAD of the Lakers in 2nd place in the Division - just a little behind the Suns. Not bad after 29 games!!!
OOPS! If the Dubs played all games with SJax, I should have stated that they hypothetically could easily be at 20-9 putting them now in FIRST PLACE in the Pacific Division ahead of both Phoenix and L.A. Although it is easy to get too giddy about this hypothetical, at the very least it helps put the Dub’s success so far into perspective compared to Phoenix and L.A. We’re pretty close in seems!
Thank you everybody. You always amuse with the roller coaster of emotion following each win/loss. If you’re not going to be satisfied with anything less than a championship, then you’re not going to be satisfied very often. I’m happy following a team that is at least now relevant.
I would like to see more of the new players myself, but Nellie pretty much told us not to expect to see much of them until mid-season. I would love to see more POB, that Clipper game was a revelation and I think he has way more upside that Mbenga. I expect that will change in the 2nd half of the season.
One thing I find interesting is everybody’s opinion of what kind of coach Nellie is. Before this last year, I never would have said he was a good defensive coach, but the W’s defense is now one of the strengths of the team. Having the right personnel in Jax & BD helps, but he’s also chosen a different paradigm. The Warriors defense reminds me of those old UNLV running Rebel teams under Jerry Tarkanian in that they are based on disrupting the other team’s offensive flow more than defending the basket. And if anyone is still fooled into thinking that points allowed is an important statistic, lose that, all that tells you is the pace the game was played at.
LRG,
I think you’re trying to defend the quality of a few Warrior wins, but correct me if I’m wrong about that.
If that’s your approach…. OK. I guess.
Top-4 wins, either conference: Phoenix and Spurs. Sure, you can have the Spurs win. Qualify that however you’d care to, I actually watched it. Let me know when the back shove, arm slap works in SA and how the key pack works on Parker and Ginobili next time and how Duncan likes the sterling D that gave Matt Bonner his Wilt Chamberlain night.
Phoenix stands as the only hands-down great game this season.
Playoff team wins: 5, including powerhouses Washington and Toronto (sans a clicking Chris Bosh… but credit Stephen Jackson with that and hope his effort can be maintained… sure, totally consistent).
Oooooooooooh.
Count the losses and get back to me.
Oooooooooooh!
Jax’s = Adam?
Proably just Mano being uninteresting again.
Cohan (and others lurking on this slow Wednesday) -
I’m curious to hear predictions for the Warriors’ approaching 8-game stretch. I’m actually with both Cohan and LRG on the topic of Warriors’ wins. The Phoenix win was undeniably great. Beating various eastern teams on the road is encouraging but doesn’t prove all that much as to our playoff chances. Against the teams we need to beat in the West (Lakers, Hornets, Blazers, Nuggets, Rockets, Jazz), we’ve only played 4 games post-Jax suspension. We’re 2-2. 7 of the next 8 are against West playoff contenders. The next two weeks should teach us a lot.
I’m standing by my 4-4 prediction. 3-5 wouldn’t shock me. 5-3 would thrill me. Others?
Adam
I think 5-3 with one game coming down to the end that could make it 6-2.
I agree Adam but am more positive than most on here. Next 8 games:
We should win tonight against Minnesota (I’ll be there!) +1
Hopefully we split Denver +1 -1
I think a win vs. the Rockets (they’re too slow) +1
Dallas is playing great but we have their number and New Orleans hot team we need to beat, so I’ll say we get one of them +1 -1
San Antonio we lose (the champs are too much) -1
I predict we kill Portland’s streak dead. +1
That would make the next 8 a 5-3 proposition. What gived me the positive spin is watching at the buzzer of the NJ loss how personally Baron and Jax seemed to take it, they knew they had that win and made sure in cleveland that they didn’t slack two nights in a row. We will have off games, these are the Warriors and this is the NBA, but that lesson will not be forgotten over the next 8 and we will have a motivated team rolling…
I do have to say one more thing in general. I do not get the crowd on here calling for Nelson’s head because they want to see more of PoB and a rookie. I agree that BW is electrifying, and I have stayed up late just to watch him in garbage time on Tivo’d games; but we are finally winning. This is in large part to Mullin, Nelson, Baron & Jax (in that order IMO). If you guys like to watch a team with heart struggle and lose it is time to become King’s fans. This team is better than last year, but so is the rest of the West (look at NO and Portland). Nellie plays his starters that hard because that is how well we’ll have to play to even sniff the 7 or 8 seed. Let’s not call for his head but enjoy the ride. Thanks all!
Thanks for the blog Adam, happy holidays…
ChuckC
You are definately logging some blog time lately. After reading your entries over time I understand your approach that you are a W’s (and even Nellie) supporter but simply critical of different facets of Nelsons approach.
That said, I still think that much of your criticism is really hypothetical and not supported by what is going on now (ie the ~ .700 wining percentage of late). However, should the W’s sag at the end of the year or in the playoffs due to tired players or a short bench, then your views will prove to have merit.
As Adam pointed out, the next 8 games will be a good indicator of the teams standing right now.
I apoligize for keeping my response general, but here it is. Having coached and played enough to know better, and giving Nelson his ‘just do’ for being an upper eschelon coach, I usually fall on the side of “its easy to criticize from the stands, because you just don’t know what the coach does”.
POB - My opinion, his attitude has always had a bad taste to it. Not a bad attitude, but one that shows he does not get it as a Pro Athelete. Maybe the Clipper game was an indicator for the future, and maybe the 200 hours of practice time (nellie sees) is a better one. We may not know the verdict on him for 2 years when he is out of the league. For now, I will accept the fact Nelson has seen POB play 2000000 times more than we have.
BW - I don’t get why you would not be able to accept that he can be a phenominal pick, and still not be ready to play this year. It happens all the time. The physical (and mental) maturity of players (people) is different. There have been studies about the differences between the physical capabilities high school/college/adult atheletes. Clearly BW is still on the High school side of his curve compared to a Durant. WHich is great for the W’s in the long run. It is not necessarily an indicator of Mullin or Nelson abilities.
PT -its hard to argue until we see failure. The formula is working so far. Games like Detroit (in Oak) can swing on a few minutes here and there playing a rookie when you think its safe with a 20+ point lead in the 2nd or 3rd qtr. ( I thought MBel absolutely killed W momentum as he did the lead). TH’s injury has hurt.
THe AB v AH is one area that I would love to hear a good interview with Nelson to understand his approach on that topic.
Bottomline, I think you criticisms have merit, but may also prove to be way off base.
Slimman– I still go to the games so how upset can I really be? Most here are positive. I’m the grinch. A few stray curmodgeons here and there.
If all opponents post-Wolves and pre-Memphis are healthy: 0-7
Steal all the wins against weak Easterners and pacing Westerners you want, ride Baron, Jax, and Ellis like the season ends in February, cling to the hot shooting nights…
This is a bad/one trick team and I stand by the opinion while you point to hot play I FREAKING PREDICTED against patsies and teams who don’t need to waste energy running and puking (chucking) in November/December to get a win against the Warriors when they can beat any team any given night and have the horsepower to win a slow-down game when it’s time to. But rest on the December laurels to your hearts’ content.
I’ve been here before.
curmudgeons
I second Slimman’s slightly optimistic predictions. If we’re on our game we should come out 5-3. 4-4 would be on par with our current trend but I’ll add the additional win for positivity sake. Anything less will be very disheartening considering the strength the West’s 1-10.
The sad part is I feel this is the best Warrior seasons I’ve seen in over a decade but that STILL might not be enough to eek us into the playoffs. There is just so much overall strength in our conference that I fear getting into the playoffs is going to be a slugfest all the way up until the very last week of the regular season.
AndrewN
I caught up on my x-mas reading. I think we are cool, but I did want to respond to one of your old comments. Montgomery v Nelson.
Your example that the two have similar records with the same players (Pre indy trade)is a clear indicator that Nelson is no more talented than Montgomery is severely flawed. UPDATE: I just went back to view your exact words and saw that JustPuked pretty much nailed the door shut on the argument (using facts) I was going to use.
I hope you realize that the fact Nelson could get the same wins out of a team without a good JR while training a new system , helps prove he is a far better coach than Mongomery.
I still remember one of the players comments (I think BD ) when Nelson came to coach, when asked about the differences between Nelson and Montg. He said Nellie started over by coaching how to properly run a fast break. The player was shocked at how something so “simple” that every NBA player should know, was not coached so well as Nellie.
That horse is dead.
So Andrew, my new years wish for you will be to let the W wins keep raining down without looking for some meaning why it shows Nellie could have done it better.
Look at Cohan coming back with a vengeance. Good to see the Grinch back in all his unbridled glory. Adds some flavor into this otherwise vanilla mid season.
I read you alot in the summer, then you virtually disappeared at the start of the season only to ferociously resurface during the holidays. Would it be too broad a stroke to paint you as a student?
I wouldn’t think as far as eight games, but I believe Ws should get 3-1 record rest of the year and get 19-13 record to finish the year, that is 6 games over .500. Also, Bill Walton is saying Lakers are 2nd best team in the west(most will disagree, but I think it is reasonable at this point). Ws are not far away from them. I am seeing a decline in Suns and Mavs standard, while Rockets never able to raise the standards as every one predicts year after year. So, in two years Hornets, Blazers and Ws have chance to move to the upper echeloen of the teams.
GO Warriors.
So if the Warriors don’t win the championship this year then we can blame it on tired legs/Nelson’s strategies and the curmudgeons can have an “I told you so” fest? Let’s be clear, this is the most entertaining team the NBA has to offer, it is not complete and, although it is a playoff team, this is not a championship team. Does that mean that Nelson is a bad coach? He raised us from obscurity in less than a year. Let’s give he man his merits. Let’s enjoy the season.
BTW Believeit, good observations. Dallas and Phoenix are still “powerhouse” teams but it looks as if their stock is falling. That was said about the Spurs at this point last season, but the Spurs are a different animal (Pop is an amazing coach). Does anyone else think that the job Phil Jackson has done with the Lakers is amazing? I hate the Lakers but that man is a coach. The Rockets will continue to suck until they trade away T-Mac and Utah may not be as good as everyone thought, but I bet Utah are still in the palyoffs when they arrive (doesn’t look so good for Houston). The “let’s see if they can keep this up” teams are going to be the most interesting to watch; the Blazers, the Hornets and yes, our Warriors. Of those three I definitely think we are the most for real and the team any of the contendors least want to face. Go Warriors!
btw- thx 4 the blog, even you curmudgeons out there… =)
Mully - Biography irrelevant unless I start prescribing anxiety medications and anti-depressants to intimidate fellow posters, not sure why you notice the splits you do but perhaps it’s related to your own frequencies… missed the more active threads, maybe.
I’ll gladly wax hapy when I see actually good winning basketball instead of Nelson machinations that fall far too short when the real stakes are on the table and all-too-predictable motivational and physical swoons from the leadership.
Slimman– don’t feed the hype. Glad you’re entertained. Thats where my money comes from, entertained suckers with no real aspirations and blind faith sans objective foresight… team will break apart after this season and Nelson is probably on the farewel tour.
Real teams find the whole gimmick insulting and/or amusing and beat it more often than not. Sorry to burst your fairweather bubble but the reality is:
Warriors are 2-11 against teams with records above .500 this year.
I’m entertained by competitive, high level basketball. Not sideshow buffoonery against bad teams.
WARRIORS ARE 2-11 AGAINT +.500 NBA TEAMS.
#75 Phob.
You are correct I am a Nelson fan but critical of some facets of his coaching as follows:
* No plan to develop our three young 1st round picks with PT, unless it’s to send them to the D league
* Not really a good coach for big men imo, has trouble incorporating them into his system and using them offensively in the low post. That includes AB who I don’t think is given any/enough low post plays. I think coach Nelson could use an already developed big man, but won’t develop one.
* I