Takedown (Warriors 119, Lakers 123)
I hated the Lakers before Monday night. I hated their fans showing up in my building twice a year chanting MVP, the smugness and entitlement with which the entire franchise operates, and the all-too-predictable results of our match-ups. Sunday night, it looked like the Warriors might be working their way past all of those nail-on-chalkboard memories, even if it was against an injury-weakened LA squad. Then Monday rolled around and Derek Fisher decided to cheat. I still hate the Lakers, but in a strange way this negativity has drawn me to them. The only way we can right the wrong that was Derek Fisher’s perverse and pathetic pratfall is to play the Lakers again this season and beat them. And the only way that happens is to make the playoffs (and find some way to conjure up four wins when Bynum and Gasol return). Anger is never a good motivator, but given the way the Warriors keep slouching through key moments of this season, I’ll take whatever motivation I can get.
The Warriors have their fair share of floppers. There’s no sense in denying that fact or making excuses for it. There is still a difference in my mind, however, between what Fisher did Monday night and a regular flop. First, there’s the context: the decisive play in an overtime game. Fisher had shown no ability to stop Monta all night and was facing the prospect of guarding him on an inbound with the fate of the entire game in the balance. This was not your run of the mill flop-off-the-fast-break act. Second, there’s the actual move: a flop involves an offensive player making contact with a defensive player, and that defensive player throwing himself out of the way a split second later. The offensive player still has a chance to look at the basket should the ref opt for a no call (the classic response in crucial late game situations) because the act of flopping clears out the defender. Fisher’s move, however, not only took the offensive player out of action but drew the whistle as well. By dragging down Monta, Fisher forced the refs to make a call. I don’t fully blame the ref here. It was Fisher that suckered him into it and ruined in the final seconds what had otherwise been one of the season’s most spirited battles. So, Derek Fisher by all accounts is a wonderful person off the court. On the court, however, all of his clutch shots can’t take away the ugly fact that he decided to cheat in the final seconds of Monday’s game, got away with it, and was rewarded with the victory.
The above should not be read to say that the Warriors actually deserved to win Monday’s match-up. They simply deserved to lose in a more honest fashion. The Warriors spent the second half looking all too happy to repeat their dismal third quarter from the night before. The penetration stopped, the defensive intensity simmered down, and the quick three pointers took flight. If anything, the ball movement at times during Monday’s second half was worse than anything we saw in LA. At the same time, it’s hard to give too much credit to the Lakers. Their current roster plays miserable defense around the rim, allowing the Warriors to score at will when they were able to penetrate. The Lakers’ defense against our guards was effective — hand checks, shoulder hits, and general roughing up — but relied upon the Warriors not being patient enough to swing the ball through defenders after pulling a double-team or creating a seam with penetration. What the Lakers did do well was slow the game down, again, in the second half. The Ws escaped Sunday with a sweet victory. The same play reheated 24 hours later wasn’t quite so tasty.
The Warriors, for all of the above problems, managed to stay in the game because they fought tremendously hard in spurts. The effort on defense and the offensive glass in the final 3 minutes of regulation was spectacular. The Warriors sent Harrington and Azubuike to the boards and would not be denied points. Typically, such plays would be positive momentum changers. But whether through poor defense (Odom’s unguarded lay-up) or careless offense (Baron’s wild oop attempt to Monta), the team kept stumbling into run-killing plays, unable to distance themselves from the competition. Baron and Jackson made a few heroic gestures but couldn’t sell their performances for a sustained period. Andris and Brandan, earning crunch time minutes from Nelson, only found little ways to chip in during a game in which the Warriors needed decisive statements. Of all the Warriors, only Kelenna left a lasting impression. His defense was largely responsible for Kobe’s 11-30 shooting night, which in turn what responsible for the game being close. Despite Azubuike’s masterful performance, the Lakers found a way to get points when they needed them most. Whether through fatigue, poor focus, coaching errors, or whatever excuse sounds best to you, the Warriors could not sustain the level of play needed to beat the best in the West.
Ultimately, however, this game doesn’t shift the big picture around all too much. Conventional wisdom said the Warriors would split the series, with each team winning a home game. In reality, the teams reversed the results but ended up in the same place. It’s not cause for celebration, but certainly not worthy of too much hand-wringing. Denver is too close for comfort, but Dallas likely feels the same way about us. If the Warriors are to spin a positive from this game, it should be a recognition that they must put good teams away when they have a chance. By not pouring it on and maintaining their style of play, they risk extinguishing the spark that distinguishes them from the rest of the NBA. Davis, Ellis, and Jackson are not halfcourt players. They thrive in the wide open court, not the calculated, cautious dribble dribble dribble of Nelson’s protect-the-lead formation. There’s no denying that the loss was a stumble, given numerous opportunities to put the game away. And if you stumble too much in close games, it’s only a matter of time before someone like Derek Fisher comes around for the takedown.
Totally ridiculous… the right call would have been a double foul with them offsetting and the ball goes out of bounds to the warriors. The ref that made the call did not even consult the other refs. He just saw Fisher on the floor grabbing his knee and gave him the call. How can you make a game deciding call and not consult the whole crew!?!?!??? I have watched the refs favor the rest of the NBA over the Warriors over the last 14 years. We get respect from some crews on some nights, but the bias tonight on that last call was ridiculous.
Frustrated, frustrated, frustrated!
NBA referees suck in general. All fans think their favorite teams get screwed by the refs. Even Spurs fans. Yes, even Lakers fans.
Yes, the call tonight was atrocious. The non-call yesterday (Fisher’s clear hack on Wright) was atrocious as well. But atrocious calls happen every night somewhere in the NBA. It’s a shame, because it ruins the game and makes it less fun to watch.
That felt like a war out there. It felt like the first two games of a playoff series, and maybe it was, if as Adam suggested, they will meet in the playoffs. I’m also mostly satisfied with the split, although the last play - the foul called on Monta’s tangle with Fisher - left a bad taste in my mouth. Even so, a split is a split. And I think this 2 game series was another breakthrough for the Warriors, giving more evidence that they indeed belong and can run with the elite teams. And it’s much better than the 13 years of debates over whether the Warriors should lose games on purpose this time of year, to increase their chances in the lottery. Perspective people.
Would this be even more tragic if the W’s don’t make the playoffs by 1/2 game. I hope the team uses this moment as a motivational event to take care of business early in the game. They could have buried the Lakers in the first quarter and should have. AB looked lost, Monta was not shooting well, and how in the world can we let them shoot open 3’s throughout the game.
If you watch that last play again, you’ll see Kobe bear-hugging BD way before Fish does his flop. Monta should have pivoted towards the basket for an easy alley-oop dunk. I scratch my head how such a heated contest with immense playoff implications be settled by a terrible call.
Any way you slice it, the Warriors have to figure out how to get a winning record against Western playoff teams pretty soon here or they may not get to be one themselves. That game was terrible long before Derek Fisher did something smart and opportunistic that floppy Warriors or other teams’ players would have done, too. And they were both falling anyway.
3-4 in our last 7, wins against no one important.
1-4 against Western playoff teams since the All Star break. We’re still just playing one or two good quarters and then the other team figures out a way to stop Nellie’s BS. We need something else, fast.
THE BALL WASN’T EVEN IN PLAY! That’s the most frustrating thing about it for me. Give the Warriors a chance man, it’s our home floor for criminey’s sake! Nonsense nonsense nonsense, utter lunacy. I always hated Fisher as a Laker, tried to put up with him and his oversized contract as a Warrior, and now back to despising the player, not the man, just the player. Cheaper than my Strolex watch.
Another thing that was absolutely ludicrous…On the Laker broadcast they had a pole question about who was the biggest steal in the 05 draft?: Monta Ellis, David Lee or Ronny Turiaf. 63% picked Ronny Frikkin Turiaf!!!! Are u kidding me??? Are u that dilusional Laker fans???? Gimme a frikkin break, he’s the WORST outta that group! Monta got 34% and Lee got something like 5%. Unbelievable.
*mostly wins against no one important. The win at Staples was huge for us.
I predict:
The board will gripe about that call all day because it’s easier than addresing the countless poor plays and decisions the Warriors and Lakers both made in this bad game. It’s especially easier than acknowledging that the team still had to take a shot to tie or win and had had no luck hitting shots at all since halftime. Jackson and Baron were especially pitiful after the break.
But the call is a much more useful excuse to add to our growing pile. The Lakers were without two of their top-3 players, two who just happen to comprose a major advantage over us that we have no chance against ni a playoff series, but we still frittered away our one quarter of hard work two nights running to make the game “exciting.”
Inconsistency and flat out dumb plays are not exciting. Their just inconsistent and dumb. And that’s what the Warriors are, all too often, when the games matter most.
it’s just Derek Fisher being Derek Fisher… the little weasel has to cheat his way thru nba games cuz he sucks at it
never liked him as a laker, jazz, or a warrior.
From TK’s blog:
“-Q: Is there a chance Matt Barnes gets back into your main rotation?
-NELSON: Like I told Matt, I think two people are playing better than him right now. I think Pietrus is playing better and I think Wright is playing better than Matt.
He played a few minutes last night. He played ahead of these guys for three quarters of the season. I gave him every opportunity and tried to be fair and I think it’s quite clear the other guys are playing better than him right now.”
FINALLY! Nellie has finally come to his senses. Barnes has been playing DLeague ball for a while now. Glad to see he’s finally woken up to my man BW. He looked good out there, didn’t get any offensive touches but fought for some tough boards and altered a couple shots. I just like his intensity and energy.
Overall it was an exciting back to back. I thought we played pretty well through out the game besides showing a little fatigue in the second half. Sometimes you just have to step back and enjoy the ride and those two games were definately what makes basketball the most exciting sport to watch.
Thrilled by the Easter resurrection of my man KelAz. We’ll need him come playoff time.
Did Baron ever get a break? I don’t ever remember seeing him off the floor.
That sound you hear is Cohan beating his dead horse.
The Warriors are the Warriors. They are nearly 70 games into the season, and they play emotional, spine-tingling, disbelief-inducing, head-scratching basketball. Their personnel is a perfect reflection of their coach, in all their and his imperfect glory. Don’t throw the half-court oop when you’re up by two and have numbers! Get the tip-in KAZ on the fourth or fifth offensive rebound to tie it with a minute left!
So yes, they play an axciting/frustrating brand of basketball, and they still had to make a shot to tie the game again. All that is true…but Cohan, wouldn’t you have liked to see ‘em get the chance at least?
Cohan:
OK. You’re right. Total waste of a season. W’s are having an off year. Let’s retool and hope we make it to the playoffs next year. After we fire Nellie and bring in a coach who understands NBA big ball, then we’ll have a team that we can get behind. And then you can count on the fans coming back.
For you, the glass is not only not half full, it’s broken!
The reason Cohan’s negativity is out of place this time is the comeback at the end of the fourth. There was no way the Dubs had a hope of getting to overtime down nine with a little over two minutws left, and then we got stops and hit shots, and Baron hit the big free throws, and so why wouldn’t someone hit a big shot to win the game? That’s the sort of game it was. It wasn’t like we blew a ten point lead at the end of regulation and deserved an exclamation point on our poor clutch play.
That call really defied belief, and the Dubs showed class by not going nuts and getting a few technicals.
We should look at this game like the game against the Wizards last year when the refs stole a game from us - which prompted the end of the year streak.
The good news is we’re mostly healthy, hungry - the team’s playing together, and KA is stepping up. We need Pietrus back full steam (who’d have thought a month ago anyone would be saying that?)
I agree with Adam - low, low, low class move by D. Fish. Play the game Derek. And then the clutching of the knee. It reminded me of grade school when you’d make a bad play and then writhe in pain so everyone would forget how you just screwed up.
I think DFish played soccer in a previous life.
CC is purposely making trashing remarks to incite responses, as he has admitted before. No need to get sucked into his rumble rousing.
Oh, and some news of POB in Bakersfield, 16.5 points, 9.8 rebounds and 3.0 blocks a game since he’s been back.
I don’t care what league it is, those are nice numbers. My bet is the guy has a career, and goes nuts of the Dubs every time he plays them.
Just a strong hunch.
I think we could use the dude.
WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH!!!!!
Welcome to the NBA.
Nice to see BWright and Azubuike doing well. Now where’s Marco? Any chance we keep these guys around?
“I thought it was going to be a no-call, just two guys fall down and the play goes on,” Fisher said. “So when the whistle blew, it caught me off-guard as well. … I don’t think anybody was necessarily guilty of anything…”
Uhm if you thought it was a no-call then why did you start rithing on the floor like Koy Detmer on MNF? Guilty as “charged”.
Actually I don’t think much true flopping goes on any more. At most some players exaggerate their reaction to true contact for dramatic effect.
On the inbounds play it really looked like Phil Jackson’s strategy for winning the game was to fool the referee. Pretty classy, huh? Both Kobe and Fisher were trying to pull their men over onto them and draw an offensive foul. As Monta said after the game, there was no foul and Fisher simply pulled him over. The correct call was a foul on Fisher before the ball was inbounded. Two free throws plus possession by the Warriors, if I’m not mistaken.
Really no place in the NBA for that kind of classless play. Sounds old fashioned to complain about cheating in today’s world but the Lakers ought to be ashamed of themselves.
So, Mr Mully, Fisher is a bad liar as well as a cheat.
Welcome to the NBA. Watch a game sometime. Hey, watch a Warriros game. We do the same crap. Remember Baron and Memo? Guess not.
So far, prediction right on: whining about a call we should not have had to have make the difference in a game we led by 11 at the half. Take care of business on the home floor and none of that happens. Two nights in a row. Win one night– off the hook. Call that happened at the end of the game– off the hook again.
We’re playing poorly but make a couple of 3 pointers and win one game out of 5 against the West’s best and you’ll never hear a peep.
Homers. I want a better team, not a lucky team. One night we think we get unlucky and we immediately whine.
THAT is classless.
It’s a foul on Fisher. Monta hits the free throws. We go to double overtime. I’m sorry but I just don’t buy this theory of - we lost the game on other plays. We lost the game on THAT play, and no the team shouldn’t dwell on it past today, nor us, but the final result was entirely in the balance and Delaney gave the game to them.
Yes, Baron screwed up, and yes you’ve got to come out on their three point shooters, but we were right there.
Now use the rage to kick some serious ass.
Wouldn’t you have loved to have heard Reggie Miller’s analysis of the flop? He could have broken it down in sequences.
Don’t blame the players, blame the officiating. Inexcusable to make that kind of call at that point in the game. Focus should be on the players, not the officials.
Yes, W’s flopped all over the court during the game and allowed uncontested layups. AB needs to be a man and throw his weight around. AC would have gotten some good licks on Odom if given that chance. And how many times did the W’s drive hard to the basket only to get stripped at the last second. Protect the ball and take a hit.
“Sounds old fashioned to complain about cheating in today’s world but the Lakers ought to be ashamed of themselves.”
Deep down inside I’m sure they don’t feel satisfied about the win. A win is a win, but if you have any ounce of true competitiveness you don’t want to do it that way. With that said Adam’s correct about how the W’s didn’t deserve to win, but it would have been nice to see them try.
like it or not, fisher’s flop is part of the nba game now. the flop was bad, the call was bad, and the ending was horrible. but the warriors will prevail and move onto the playoffs.
on a side note, did anyone notice the lane violation by kobe on monta’s free throw attempt? that was a move that kobe deliberatley made to throw off monta. the official caught that and called the violation,so not all the officiating was bad…
You can look back at the lob Baron attempted to throw Monta in OT that sailed out of bounds. That hurt and certainly didnt help their cause last night.
(Overtime, throwing olly opps?!)
Yes sure one horrible call (made by the ref with the worst position on the play of course, but you just never expect LUV from refs, especially if you’re team is the analog to the Oakland Raiders), but hey if BD goes for a finger roll layup on the continuation instead of the slam (off the back of the rim) at the end of the 4th, this game might not ever go into OT. Or maybe make a few of the 13 missed layups in the first half, including some ridiculously easy looks, that would have helped (we should have been up at the half over 20, again). Or if Monta just shoots his average. Plenty of ways playing better would have resulted in a W; always wiser to take the responsibility for the things you can change than to blame everybody else for everything (anyhow that’s Kobe’s schtick - does anybody whine more on a b-ball court, like he somehow doesn’t get extra consideration; as fun as he is to watch while the game is playing, his body language and gestures are very telling about his entitled state of mind).
Derek Fisher’s been lying to get a paycheck for years (for example the one he got from GSW to be highly forgettable, even as a drama coach), no surprises there.
And of course he KNOWS he should have been called for the foul before the inbound (two FTs and the ball). In a way a very stupid play, because if it was called correctly he could have lost the game, and then we’d all be thanking his tricky, slow punk arse for resorting to weak tactics instead of actual basketball play (which is, theoretically, what should always decide a basketball game).
Just a game though, I’ll take a split with the Lackers for sure.
Does anybody else detect a level of hypocrisy in CC whining about whiners?
We didn’t lose the game on Baron’s alley opp to the stands, Baron’s terrible early clock 3, our ability to make Lamar Odom look like Wilt Chamberlain, Jackson and Baron’s PATHETIC second halves, etc.?
Again, whine all you want, it’s a loss. Want to be like Mike D’Antoni and the lame Suns? Keep whining.
Otherwise, play the games against teams missing two of their 3 key players and win them early instead of playing starters 50+ minutes in the second night of a back-to-back.
Think about that. Nelson had to burn all of our top guys, he started our best five, but we split the series on Jackson’s one streaky lucky finish against ONLY KOBE doing his thing and the Lakers started Turiaf and Radmanovich in both games. Jack made squat until those 3’s Sunday. He made squat, PERIOD, in overtime last night.
Get a new act. Preferably not whining. Crybabies.
Welcome to the NBA.
If he really want to make this all we can say about our terrible play for more than half the game AT HOME last night, we got calls last night, too, and Kobe was routinely smacked on drives, Baron’s “leading” elbow was his usual schtick into Kobe’s face, Harrington beats up anyone he can, Jackson grabs plenty, Barnes is a thug on the floor sometimes. Every team does stuff. Every team gets caught now and then. Fisher fell and capitalized on Ellis being off balance in a scrum. It’s a vet move that sometimes works, sometimes doesn’t.
Suck it up if you’re serious about contention, homers.
Mano– didn’t watch the game, have to take pot shots, huh?
Nice mention of the Kobe lane violation.
just too many minutes for baron nellie..
Tough game, but exciting to watch. Again, the yin yang W’s were in the game until the 2nd half, then stopped moving in the 3rd. Great comeback in the last 3 minutes.
Why the constant zone defense, especially when the Lakers are shooting the 3 with consistency. Maybe switch it up once in awhile? The L’s offensive boards, resulting from the zone, killed us.
Odom is a W killer, he just controlled the paint and glided to the hoop. Someone has to take him hard to the floor and let him know that it’s W territory. Besides Baron being the tough guy, who is that person?
The W’s should have won, with the Lakers without 2 of their top 3 players. The L’s strength was the 3 point shooters (without Gasol and Bynum) and that’s how they won the game. Too bad the W’s zone invited them to shoot the 3.
AB is out of his zone right now, hope he can come back strong. We need him.
Mano:
Yes, it was a risky move to say the least. Could have gone the other way and he’s be getting skewered in the LA press today. As I said, watch the play again and watch Kobe grab BD to prevent him from running the play, BEFORE the Fish flop. Does seem to me that Phil gave explicit instructions to prevent the W’s from running the play. And, how many times have we heard that the refs won’t blow the whistle in that situation.
The play where BD attempted a dunk and missed was actually waved off before the shot so wouldn’t have counted anyway.
What I came away with, other than a bad taste in my mouth, was the fact that the W’s didn’t have their A game last night and looked downright awful at times, especially finishing around the basket and preventing Odom and Ronny from second shots and layups but still managed to have a chance to win at the end.
The other observation was the unbelievable 3pt shooting of Fisher, Kobe with KA in his face, and especially Vujacic. I see Marco as a very similar player, maybe even a better shooter than Vuj. Probably not as hawking on defense but deserving of an opportunity to drop some 3’s. Why he sits on the bench when Monta is not having a great shooting night, played the entire game, and could have used a breather before the final push makes me a little frustrated.
Watched all the game, actually; but thanks for being wrong, again.
If you set your self up as blog punching bag, resident inciter, why complain when people take some shots?
No need to whine, correct?
I would LOVE to see the Warriors face the Lakers, even if it is probaly our worst matchup. I just wanna take down that jumbo ego of PJack a notch. The only thing that WOULD bother me though is you know Dictator Stern will make sure the refs setup an LA/Boston matchup. If yo thought last night’s call was bad, can you imagine a whole 7-game series worth? I get hot just thinkin about it.
“The play where BD attempted a dunk and missed was actually waved off before the shot so wouldn’t have counted anyway.”
Was it? The announcers said it would have counted (but of course they’re not the refs either).
This game wouldn’t have even been close without the efforts of Azuibuike. He reminds me a little of a (younger, more athletic) Fisher actually (without the theatrical abilities).
Mano:
Pay attention to the ref under the basket, not what Barnett says. I believe he corrected himself later.
Was a stupid move regardless.
Yeah, Fischer flopped. A veteran move that paid dividends for the Kobes. The Warriors, to their credit, showed heart coming back from down 110-101 with under three minutes to play. Alot of heart. But until they find a way to rebound, they’re going to continue to find a way to lose more games like this than they win. Lamar Odom going for 20+ back to back nights only underscores this point. It was agreat game, though, but a tough one to lose.
A damn tough one.
I just don’t understand why the other refs didn’t see the call the way it actually was? It was so obvious from all the angles except where Delany was standing and the other refs DID have the right view to make the right call (or no call). Refs have their little meetings all the time to fix calls when one of them gets it wrong, so why would they not do that this time? Maybe we still would have missed the shot, but the Ws deserved to atleast get a shot
Poor Angry Mano.
Wants to hit the other kids.
You had some nice observations but you did the same thing you ACCUSE me of: acted like a dork for the world to see and attacked fellow posters you don’t like.
WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH!
The call was wrong. It cost the Warriors a chance to win the game. I thank the team for playing so much heart and intensity over the last two nights and wish them the best of luck (and calls) the rest of the way. I just hope they respond positively to this and take out their frustration on Dallas and Denver, because if we win those games we should be in!!
I just wanted to comment on one of the most asinine truisms. Kawakami says in his blog that the Warriors have to earn calls from the refs by winning a championship or two. What??????? They always say that, that a rookie has to earn calls. That star players get calls. Please correct me on this, but as a ref, isn’t it your job to call the play, period. Is there a calculus where you say - ah, a struggling team that hasn’t hit their potential, I’ll screw them on this one.
Or, that was a foul, but schucks, it’s D Wade and I just friggin love the guy. Let’s get the man some free throws.
If so they should all be canned, no?
I know I’m falling for her trap, but I’m all for putting a bounty out on the girl and or teen who hides behind the handle cc. Look how much it posts after a tough loss. That’s so wack. The internet is a wonderland for such puffs.
Bay vs. LA is a rivalry. If you’re not a homer then, you are not a fan.
#13– good points. The Warriors have proved time and again that with them anything can happen. The refs have to stay out of it. I told ya’ll after Sunday’s game that LA teams always enjoy the favor of refs in college and the pros and even high school, if you really know your hoops.
Wyatt, no bounties allowed here.
And why a girl or teen?? or Puffs? I don’t think I like where you’re coming from on this one.
If you don’t like Cohan’s posts, do as I do: Scroll them by without peeking.
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Wyatt,
Don’t mind CC. He’s like our resident middle child, toddler stuck in his terrible two’s mounting incessant temper tantrums just to draw attention. He means no harm and u learn to grow fond of his attention starved ways.
Otis (#43)- I’ve also always hated that BS about rookies or bad/young teams having to earn reasonable calls by the refs. I thought this year was looking a lot better, maybe because of the ref scandal this summer. But in watching the 2 Laker games it really appeared to me that there is still a subtle double standard in the league. The Lakers got away with a much more aggressive defense that included overlooking some obvious fouls. I wouldn’t be surprised if the refs mindset at the end wasn’t ‘I’m not going to bail out the Warriors by calling a foul, anything goes’. Then when players start hitting the floor, the whistle goes against the Warriors. It was obvious Fisher tripped over Baron’s foot and did not get knocked down by Monta. Of course Delaney wasn’t in position to see Fisher’s feet. For somebody who loves the NBA it definitely leaves a bad taste.
Everyone talking about posters, no one talking about the lame play of the team and the impending doom!
The sky is falling! Dirk let us into the playoffs even though we’re 3-4 and Denver is coming on!
Kobe + Odom + Fisher + Radmanovich + Turiaf = 1-1
Kobe + Pau + Bynum + Odom = Fisher = 0-4
We had D Fish. We tossed him for nothing because we signed him to a dumb contract. He could have taught Monta how to react quickly when you’re falling off a play instead of Baron teaching Monta how to be a movie star.
CC, did you feel attacked when I pointed out you were whining, too? C’mon, if you can’t take the shots, don’t give them. And please don’t pull the “innocent victim” routine, nobody who reads you regularly buys it for a half a second even. You are a verbal arsonist, your observations have long served as word rich pyromania. Personally I enjoy it even (especially) when it pisses me off. Form follows function, I guess.
Anger without hatred is compassion, my man; and who said I don’t like you? I obviously have more than a little sympathy for punk arse left field hard edged critical analysis aimed towards inciting at least as much as insight. If it were all homer agreeability and Disneyish fandom, who’d read any of this mess? I mean we’re not publishing Hallmark cards here, plus isn’t that what a Lackers blog is for?
Still we don’t need someone on the blog to count all the times your conclusions have been correct, do we?
My advice remains unchanged; bust it the way you see it (and I’ll do the same). I appreciate your challenges, quite honestly. And after a loss like that, I had an emotional need to upload a bit of antipathy, y’know?
Anyhow in this we seem to agree; there’s no value, outside of cheap therapy, in blaming the refs.
Some positives from the last 2 games. KelAz seems to have hopped in the rejuvination machine. Great timing cause we’ll need him.
Nellie has finally put some trust in BW. About time I say. I think he’ll help us win some games.
Jack has hit the zone. He was our most consistent threat these last two games and I hope he can maintain it.
Negatives:
AB looks like he has regressed. Maybe it’s a matchup problem but AB seems to have alot of those.
Baron seems understandably tired.
All in all I like how we’re playing. Let’s hope we can maintain our intensity these next couple weeks.
Its easy to say the Dubs deserved to lose the game, but the Lakers played like crap as well, wasting away a nine point lead in the closing minutes. The Dubs deserved the same chance the Lakers had in their last legitimate possession to even the score. I don’t remember seeing a ref make a call like that in the last seconds of a game. Usually its the no call that is controversial. There is a history of the Lakers getting calls. Eric says in post #2 that even the Lakers get bad calls. I’m sure they do. But I’ve noticed in big games against Cinderella teams the preponderance of game-changing bad calls or missed calls overwhelmingly favor the Lakers. I have the emotional scar tissue to prove it.
Fatigue: the other story of the game. Guys did not have the energy on D and their offensive sets were lazy as well. On one defensive set, a Laker penetrated and all of the Dubs on the floor seemed to reach for the ball rather than play D with their feet. The guys were clearly tired in the second half and it showed in their play. There’s not much that can be done, because it was a hard fought btb series, and the Lakers showed the same fatigue. Still, Croshere and Watson should have played some minutes to spell the starters. There is no doubt that they were playing on sheer will.
WAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
PS, Take a look at the Pacers’ upcoming schedule and last 4 games. Should be familiar.
Atlanta has a nice cake run, too, but there is an actual chance that the Warriors will miss the playoffs and the Pacers will make them. Doubt it happens but how funny is it that no matter how great we think we are, we’re still clinging to a 1/2 game playoff lead and the Pacers are only 1 1/2 games out?
Sorry if I offended you, my dear Otis. It’s just too early for this shyte. I am not fond of Warrior haters, at all. This blog is obviously no country for the hot blooded or even passionate. A bunch of pc silly-con valley types, I see.
The W’s are my dudes, a bunch of gunslingers who like to push the damn ball and run circles around squares. That’s how we do it in the BAY.
Nelson needs to play big men Wright and Crosier serious minutes if they are going to get into the playoffs and then prosper there. Stupid Nellie Small Ball (SNSB) has brought 30 years of failure to win a ring for him, and has mightily contributed to a dumb style of basketball that has made the Warriors the worst team in the NBA in the last 30 years. You need to have big guys playing and they need to be Go to guys as well – i.e. they need to score, including Biedrens. Otherwise, the long-term of futility of SNSB, Stupid Nelly Small Ball, will continue. And guys like Phil Jackson will then then have 10 rings on his fingers, whereas Nellie will maintain the futility of 30 years w/o ring and a dismal playoff record.
#55
I think Nellie implied that along with CWebb’s corpse, Cro is pretty much done for the year.
“Are you getting to the point where you can pretty much say that Webber won’t be a part of this?
-NELSON: It’s going to be pretty hard at this point. Because what are we down to, 13 games now? It’s like anybody else. It’s like Cro coming back.”
I forgot to add that to my negatives list. If Cro can’t come back that’ll hurt us. He was a good role player coming off the bench. Provided intensity and toughness which Lamar Odom’s 20/20 line proved we are lacking in.
Mr Mully,
It’s good that we spent so little on trying out Croshere, Mbenga, and Webber. They all had signs of making some contributions. Hindsight is always 20/20, of course.
Someone mentioned that Patrick O’Bryant is suddenly lighting up the D-League. I’m not sure he’d ever play for Nelson even though he’s got skill. He’s just not fast enough. But I just saw what Stephane Lasme is doing for Miami in three games now.
This sucks– all of our gambles/experiments failed and our two unceremonious dumps actually look like they can contribute some decent minutes. Wright has already proven the Old Gambler wrong, too.
Sorry folks, I still think this is a problem that our crazy win total has covered up until now, when the going has gotten tough and we play sub-.500 ball.
From the LA Times:
“And, imagine this, the play of the game came when the Lakers were on defense, Derek Fisher drawing a foul after Monta Ellis bulldozed him on an inbounds play with four seconds left in overtime.”
Bulldozed? Really? I didn’t know they allowed refs to write articles for the Times. No wonder Adande left that mess. They need to stick to articles about how their own columnists have sex changes and change their name to a woman’s. At least that has some credibility.
OK, that’s pretty dumb press coverage. No argument there.
Monta tried to get separation and had his hands to Fisher’s chest. Fisher actually tripped after the rub through getting past the Baron-Kobe lovefest and Ellis and he were tied up legitimately. ellis intended to make contact that meant something, that’s not up for debate.
But Ellis was trying to change direction as he began to fall and when Fisher kept hold and did the smart thing. No bulldozer.
Yeah maybe we shoulda made more moves this year other than picking up unwanted vets and D-League prospects. Webb, Cro, THud; injured. Watson, Mbenga; no significant impact.
I know we were trying to save money to resign AB and Monta but man, we could’ve used some life after the starting 5. Baron and Jack playing every minute of a game off a b2b is asking too much. Bobby Jackson would’ve been a nioe grab and is paying dividends in Houston, would’ve been cheap.
I just hope we have enough gas to push us through the playoffs.
someone may have beat me to this punch, but…
Chris Cohan-
You can call it whining, but ummm, the Lakers are the best team in the west, and the warriors kept it close despite a huge laker’s surge. oh, you have seen basketball games before right? you realize that a lead at halftime means nothing, that teams make runs, right?
anyways, the whining comes from referees beating teams rather than teams beating each other. please refer to the suns-spurs series last year, and the warrior’s ejections in the playoffs last year as well.
anyways, why aren’t you a spurs fan? they seem to possess everything you admire in basketball.
Mully, you mean push into the playoffs, we’re not getting through much once there, unfortunately; come this off season we’ll be glad for our frugality though, I believe. Intermediate steps towards being a long term and serious contender (instead of an exciting but unpredictable upsetter).
#59 Wyatt; you can’t simultaneously complain that CC barks too much and then say nobody can handle your barking. If you want peeps to respect your passion, well you know…
Mano
I can dream can’t I? A perfect storm of events can pull us through to a title. Not saying it’s likely but as Hollinger’s formula predicts, we have a .1% chance of getting a ring. I’ll take those odds
Bebop,
That Lakers team was missing 2/3 of its core.
They would have wiped the floor with us two nights in a row if Harrington and Andris were both fouling out trying to contain Pau, Odom, and the usually reserve-status Turiaf and Radmanovich, let alone with Bynum abusing us at will as he does.
We played terribly and some folks are predictably using the call as their latest excuse for the Warriors poor, inconsistent, lucky, lazy, and gimmicky play when Nelson can’t just rack up wins against bad teams.
We’re 3-4 in our last 7 at the most important time of the year and only NOW are people conceding that our players are tired, our bench bad, our tricks old, and our personnel management questionable in the service of Nellie’s Last Stand.
Mano de San Jo:
Handle this, you’re not my peeps and CC is doing much better since I put it in check. I even agree with its Baron-Kobe lovefest take, there is something there.
Regarding our Bigs:
First of all, I agree with Mr. Mully that the emerging playing time of BW is a nice silver lining that is long overdue. But I am worried about our size as we reach the end of the season.
Secondly, as MStat points out in #35, AB is in a funk. He is not the impact player he was before his operation. Has anyone noticed that his vertical game is weaker? Hopefully its just a matter more recovery time and not fatigue from a busy summer of international competition. Whatever the case, his performance has dropped big time.
Thirdly, I’m glad that Otis pointed out POB’s D League stats in #15. I’ve been thinking the same thoughts. He has been productive in game time situation in the NBA this year and he’s demonstrating productivity in the D League as well. It’s time for people to wake up and smell the coffee. He’s a player. Unfortunately, he won’t be offering his services to our favorite team next year…or this year.
Finally, as a fan, its really disappointing that Nellie’s system precludes the big players that the Dubs have. Nellie won’t play more than one big at a time, and POB and Kosta have been cast away entirely. I understand Nellie’s system and all of its benefits. I also understand that our best players are smalls. But the Dubs have talented bigs who can help them with rebounding, shot blocking, and inside scoring. The fact that those bigs don’t have an perimeter shot that helps the team spread the floor is not a valid reason for not playing them. A system that does not allow for interior strenght will ultimately fail. I don’t understand why the Dubs have picked up these bigs if the are going to be underused. (And yes, I know that POB was drafted under the Montgomery administration. But he is a good reserve player.)
Maybe Nellie will adapt his system next year to make room for BW, Kosta, and any other big that might be picked up. With another year under their belts, maybe Nellie will more confidence.
.1% is infinitely better than what were used to, especially at this point in the season. Usually we’re rapping about our %’s of ping pong balls y’know? I much prefer the current problems.
A perfect storm, indeed; maybe we could blow some air into our own sails though by simply playing better, make some easy lay ups? Why wait for the weather when you can be it instead?
—
CC, but don’t Kobe/Pau/Andrew/Lamar have to play together before they’re considered an unbeatable core? Oh don’t get me wrong, once they do, that team ought to hurt a lot of peeps feelings, not just dubs fans, for sure! They’re paying a crazy premium (something like an additional $20 mil in luxury tax this season and next) for it though, and Gasol has shown some inclination towards injuries. Could yet blow up in their face (of course that’s me hoping, not banking on it).
I must admit I found myself yelling at the TV several times last night to make some damn substitutions because both teams looked incredibly tired for long portions of the game. CJ has given us some good minutes, I don’t get the full distrust. He could handle Vujivic, I’d think. Baron and Monta both looked like they could haved use a breather.
Tact,
You’ve lost all credibility on this blog with your unoriginal comments. Especially when you complained about the Mbenga release. Wasn’t it you that criticized the dubs for releasing him and praised the Lakers for making a great pickup? Gasol and Bynum are out, where was Mbenga? Playing big is a great strategy if you’ve got big guys that can play. Mbenga is worse than Foyle.
Back to the game. This was the second game in a row where I was pulling my hair out watching how the dubs easily squander their double digit leads. There was no fire in the 3rd quarters. To me it was fatigue. These guys look spent in the second half. There was actually a timeout called in OT (or maybe 4th qtr) where Jax just bent over hands on knees for about 5-10sec. before walking over to the huddle. These guys look tired. Still doesn’t excuse the listless play. I say an energetic Wright or Watson, giving Baron & Jax a rest for a few minutes will pay dividends at the end of the 4th.
That being said, I expected a loss after that listless 3rd qtr. I would have been fine with loss (well maybe not so fine), but it would have been another loss.
What really kills me is that you take the outcome of the game out of the players’ hands. At the end of a hard fought game you want the players to decide the outcome. Making a poor call at such a critical time is just extremely poor judgement on the ref’s part. This call in the middle of the 4th qtr is just another bad call. This call with 4 sec left in OT of a 2pt game is stupidity. An obvious foul at the end of a game I can live with… in that situation I’m complaining about how stupid Monta is for making such a dumb foul with the game on the line. But Monta did not “Bulldoze” Fisher, and to make that call you’ve got to be absolutely sure there was a foul.
Wyatt,
I expect everyone to be pretty upset since we have NO breathing room at all and we will now totally burn out our guys just trying to get IN to the playoffs at all. I don’t really care about what shape that attitude comes in when it’s just more excuses and insults to cover up for how bad this team actually is.
Your post was childish but also predictable, just like mine. We’re a classy bunch.
Biedrins actually looks lighter (less muscle). With an appendectomy you really can’t exercise for a while, so hopefully he’s still just trying to get back into game shape. He needs to be more aggressive. There was a play towards the end of the game where he got the offensive rb and looked like he could just have turned around and dunked. Instead he didn’t even look at the hoop, he just passe it out.
I played my first full court game of basketball in years the other night(up to 7) and by the end I was ready to either pass out or throw up. I’m a relatively young guy also and in decent shape. To imagine the amount of energy it takes to play a full 4 quarters PLUS overtime after a b2b is amazing to me. I’ve backed Nellie in the past but man, we need to give our guys some rest. Playing that many minutes 2 nights in a row is asking too much, even for world class athletes. Adrenaline can only provide you with so much.
Fair enuff, CC.
I think we’re all a little stressed from the b2b.
Peace in the Middle East
Obama 08!
Wyatt, please; I can handle anything you can offer, sir, and you haven’t offered anything substantial yet (unless you consider LA conspiracy theories and weak swipes at fellow fans as substantial content). CC may be an acquired taste, but most of us don’t seriously question that he loves the dubs (you don’t criticize something you don’t care about, after all). Well not unless we’re bored and we need to make fun of the Blazers or something (that’s what Open Thread means).
And then you’re still left with that little taste of hypocrisy, where somehow it’s OK for you to say any damn fool thing (a bounty?) without accountability or consequence, without reproach or criticism, though what you’re really doing is trying to negate CC’s speaking freely from his mind (even if freely in this case includes purposefully inciting and crazy negativity).
Do you see the double standard?
Oh and my apologies if I consider dubs fans “my peeps”; no offense intended, but most of us do have a silly bond of long suffering basketblueball (err, sorry Jan, but it’s the most base locker room analogy I could come up with; ie appropriate). Hence the crazy emotions…
Cheers!
Of course I posted #80 while everybody else was posting, only to prove that I too, can be classless, and with even more words, and less coherent thoughts.
Derek Fisher IS a tool. The ref IS a tool for making that call at that time.
However, the W’s had a four point lead with less than 2 mins to go. All they had to do was guard against the 3. What happens? They leavee Fisher wide open for the 3.
Lamar Odom torched them again on the boards for the 2nd night in a row.
The Warriors will likely make the playoffs, but this certainly won’t be their year.
More and more, the Warriors are being exposed by other teams that can actually rebound the ball AND can consistently make layups and dunks. How many layups did they miss last night and Sunday night? I don’t know the actual total, but it was a lot. Hopefully, this is something Mullin and company will address in the offseason.
That said, NBA officials just plain suck. I don’t know what the main problem is.
But, especially in the 1st half, the Lakers had virtually no fouls called against them. And I saw a lot of what I thought were fouls that went uncalled.
Now, I know that not everything I see is really a foul. But, I think the Lakers had something like 6 TOTAL fouls called against them in the 1st half.
The NBA needs to either add extra officials for all games or review any foul called in the final 10 seconds. They need to do SOMETHING. Because someone could make the case that ref had money on the game.
Nice to see everybody out in force today.
Fisher’s “veteran move” happens in bball all the time. The elite players are the best at it. Just watch Jordan in slow-mo. Or Kobe for that matter. It’s part of the game. It’s a BATTLE out there. Veterans have the advantage over rookies most of the time. Blame the refs, not he players. Refs give vets the benefit of the doubt more often than not.
Even the most optimistic of us would have gladly accepted a split. I don’t think anybody seriously expected to sweep the Lakers even without Bynum and Gasol. LA is a measuring stick. Tells the team how much more they have to improve.
My main concern is that the starters are burning because the bench is actually shrinking without MP, Croshere and Barnes. And the Lakers “exploited” this with their quick passing— all our players had to run around and switch so much on each possession that it’s no wonder that they didn’t have enough energy left on offense. We’re lucky Azubuike looks healthy again. But Andris is obviously not 100% yet. Brandan can do some things but he really is too underweight for his position.
At least they get a few days rest before Portland. Hopefully they can put that game away early so they can conserve the starters for the more important games against Denver and Dallas next weekend. Those are MUST WINS.
I thought I was about to take part in the best blog on Warrior basketball. Instead I get 10 posts from CC acting like an insecure 4th grade bully. Thanks Cohan.
We’ve had no breathing room all season, which is why Nellie has been not giving his starters enough of a rest. But, if he had enough confidence in a bench he had a strong hand in putting together … wait, we’ve had this conversation all season. This team is not burning out. We’ve lived with the clutch 3’s, the errant shots, the come from behind when they should have won easily wins, the lack of defense, and the luck all season. They are, who they are. I’m still enjoying the ride. I don’t care who is on the court and who is not (no Gasol or Bynum), the games will be played and the W’s will be competitive. Sometimes we win, and sometimes we don’t. That’s life. Onto the next game.
Oh yeah … really bad call last night.
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! to JP
But Valr: +1
On a lighter note….
“Wright is very slender, but he’s going to be a force in the paint due to his great feel and athleticism. He knows how to get shots off with his dominant (left) hand, although he is still too dependent on it against good defenders. Boozer, of course, is totally ambidextrous inside of eight feet. And though Boozer is much stronger, Wright can learn how he uses his perimeter game effectively while always maintaining a strong presence inside.” David Thorpe -ESPN
Never saw the BW Boozer comparison but it makes sense. I like Thorpedo, good to see he’s givin BW some props.
Re: The Take Down
This was a classic veterin move that that is part of the game…it’s ugly when it goes against you and gives you a guily smile when your guy pulls it off. I’ve seen Baron pull off similar tactics acting as if he was on the set of a broadway play. Its part of the game and will never go away.
Re: The Call
Delaney should not have made the call under any circumstances in that context. With the way that game was being refereed that was a no call or a double foul. No ref should take a game into his own hands, and the other 2 refs were at fault for not wiping away the call and reseting the play. It was obvious from every other angle other than Delaney’s so it is their duty to help their partner.
Re: The Game
Cohan has a point that the Lakers where shorthanded and still took us to our limit in both games. Having Gasol and Bynum would undoubtedly make it more difficult for us to score and easier for them to score. Obviously at this point the Lakers are the more complete and deep team. I don’t think anyone could argue that. I still don’t believe that necissarily means they would beat us in a 7-games series (although conventional wisdom supports that they would). We do have a special team that rises to the occasion and could give the Lakers everything the could handle. I for one am now hoping that we do see them in the first (or second) round so that we can see these 2 teams play again this year. These games have been so much fun to watch (expect for the last 4 seconds of that game).
WE STILL BELIEVE!!!
Lakers missing 2/3 of their core…When exactly have they ever played together? Never? Hard to call that a core. Portland is missing 1/5 of their core too! Hey we’re missing core players too, like whomever we draft next year! Whining about missing players, classy.
The best team in the West almost lost twice in a row to Nellie’s BS, and that’s with the Warriors playing inconsistently and flat out DUMB. Let’s start carving that pedestal for the Fakers.
3/4 over the last 7. Everyone knew the Dubs needed to play about .500 ball over the last push. They’re doing as expected. The rant loses it’s effectiveness when the Dubs do as well everyone expected them to do. It’s STILL good enough to make the playoffs. When will that whine begin again?
Nellie’s flawed BS is still 5 games away from first in a resurgent West. Can’t wait to hear Cohan’s BS rationalization out of that one.
-Enuff with the “shorthanded” Lakers excuse. They were handed Gasol and Bynum may never return, injuries happen, etc.
Now, if we lost Baron, then that would be shorthanded.
As for this mornings fun:
-If we do play the Lakers in the playoffs, I can see that I may have to be physically restrained and/or isolated in solitary confinement.
-Just one thing Mano, if CC is such a big Warrior fan, what’s with the Blazers stuff? CC?
-You guys are right on though: Classy and Warriors don’t mix. We’re effing maniacs.
Transmitting from deep within the mothership…
In the end, bad call or bad defense, that was a spectatcular game to watch last night. I don’t know about you guys but im glad that we are in the western conference and get to see games that are played with such intensity this close to the end of the season, unlike the LEastern conference(anyone see the score for Miami’s game last night?).
great time to be a basketball fan, if you’re in the Best conference.
WAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (Birth cries of the new Warrior fan)
It’s impossible to finish + 1/2 game out, unless one of the teams plays less than a full schedule.
And we were doing so well for a second too…
We’re a game behind Dallas, soon to be 1.5 since they have the Clips coming up. Half a game ahead of Denver.
Dallas plays Denver on Thursday. If we beat Portland(an absolute MUST win) we’ll either be a game and a half ahead of Denver or .5 a game behind Dallas and .5 a game ahead of Denver heading into our monster game against Denver.
Man so much hangs in the balance it’s ridiculous. Denver seems to be peaking so my guess is we’ll be battling Dallas for the final playoff spot. Unfortunately though they have the softest schedule of the three so it’s gonna be tough. Man what a year.
Mr. Mully @ # 77: You’ve got that right: Nelson is setting the W’s up for lead-losses and late-game failure by overplaying the starters. It happened in both of the Lakers games. The starters busted their butts and ran up leads, only to lose them later when they were justifiably tired.
We have harped on this all year on this blog. Yeah, Nellie has helped build a great team; and yeah, Buke is finally getting minutes; but Nelson is wasting this team by not playing CJ, Wright and Croshere more.
By the way, unless Bynum and Gasol get to 100% health or close to it, I don’t know how much of a difference they’d make against the W’s. Bynum especially could be rendered irrelevant against us (like Shaq with the Suns) if he’s not explosive enough to get up and down the floor. If those Laker players do come back healthy, then we should be a little scared, but it’s far from certain that they will be 100%. And in the playoffs the Lakers will have to go to war with the army they actually have at that time, no0t the army their fans wish they had.
Just keep that sweet sweet cash rolin in, suckers.
We’re championship caliber, no question.
Dude, we’ve never said we’re championship caliber… at least I haven’t.
Official prediction: